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I'm going to be working at UPMC Presby for the next two years and moving to Pittsburgh and have been doing some research on the web for the last couple of months and I think I've narrowed down my neighborhood choices to Squirrel Hill, Shadyside or Point Breeze. I was wondering if people could give some pointers on which neighborhood they think is a good fit or if there are some neighborhoods I should consider other than those.
My wife and I are in our 30s and we have two daughters age 3 and 6. So we would like a quiet safe neighborhood. My wife who is also a physician will probably be a stay at home mom for the two years im working there. It would be nice to live somewhere that is walking distance from groceries, restaurants, parks, bookstores. We're don't drink and dont really care for nightlife but do enjoy good eateries and like to go for walks or bike rides in parks. Also, good schools are a big consideration. We will probably be looking at public schools because the tuition for private schools i've looked at was fairly ridiculous. Looks like Colfax and Liberty are good elementary schools and serve Shadyside and Squirrel Hill. Point Breeze has Linden elementary which I've read is a very good school but is a magnet school of some sort and I guess getting my daughter in there is not guarenteed.
Finally, I'd like to be able to ride a bike or walk to work so I would have to be within 2.5 miles of UPMC presby.
It seems like much of the rental property in Pittsburgh is run through realties. If anyone has good or bad experiences with certain groups or apartments I'd love to know about it. And if anyone knows a good place that you think would be a good fit for us with availability starting in June of 2008, even BETTER!
If anyone has good or bad experiences with certain groups or apartments I'd love to know about it.
Franklin West and Walnut Capital offer the best apartments in the areas you mentioned. Although Franklin West is mainly in Shadyside. I personally rented with Franklin West when I lived in Pittsburgh and I really liked them (website: Welcome to Franklin West). The only complaint I have with them is that they are a bit annoying about showing your apartment when you do not renew your lease. Since most of the apartments are unique they need to show people the actual apartment, but at times they weren't always very respectful about it. After I complained about it they tried to call before they came over, but I never understood why they couldn't give their agents cell-phones and a list of everyone's contact numbers so they could always call before they came.
Anyhow, both Squirrel Hill and Shadyside would fit what you stated well (although I can say nothing about the schools, I have no kids), but they are a bit different. Squirrel Hill has a large Jewish community and is a bit more run down, but I thought it had more unique places to eat etc.
Oh, and biking doesn't work very well in Pittsburgh no matter where you live. It rains a bit too much and the city drivers (and pedestrians ) seem to hate bike riders. When I lived there I would ride my bike to work when the weather was good and I got yielded at more times than I can count. Ride on some streets and its a death wish, ride on the side-walks and people start yielding about it.
Oh, and biking doesn't work very well in Pittsburgh no matter where you live. It rains a bit too much and the city drivers (and pedestrians ) seem to hate bike riders. When I lived there I would ride my bike to work when the weather was good and I got yielded at more times than I can count. Ride on some streets and its a death wish, ride on the side-walks and people start yielding about it.
I have no real insight on living in these neighborhoods, but I am an avid cyclist and ride the streets of Pittsburgh constantly. I would have to disagree that biking doesn't work well in Pittsburgh. You can't just hop on a bike and ride the same streets you would drive on, no. But with a little planning, biking Pittsburgh is extremely enjoyable. You just have to know which streets to take, and which streets not to take. Here are some resources:
Bike Pittsburgh is a good website to refer to for biking information around Pittsburgh.
Bikely has a plethora of routes that fellow bikers around Pittsburgh have submitted.
And the city of Pittsburgh recently published their commuter bike map, which lists all the streets in Pittsburgh that are generally considered safe, as well as which streets to avoid.
When we moved to Pittsburgh to work at Pitt and UPMC, we looked at Shadyside and Squirrel Hill and opted for Squirrel Hill (there are parts of Point Breeze that would have fit our needs).
This was partly because we are Jewish and wanted the large Jewish community; partly because we liked the mix of shopping/restaurants/movie theaters around Forbes and Murray (center of Sq. Hill) better than the mix in Shadyside (for us as a young family); and partly for the schools. Parts of Point Breeze and northern Sq. Hill are nice because of their proximity to both shopping districts yet are in the Squirrel Hill/Allderdice school feeder pattern (see below).
Re schools:
About 1/3 of Sq Hill (roughly the southern part) and about 1/2 of Point Breeze feed to Minadeo. This is where our daughter goes and we have been happy. Usually has the highest test scores in the city (last year a school on the south side, Roosevelt, edged out Minadeo). Minadeo feeds to Sterrett Middle School (although it sounds like the OP wont be here long enough to worry about that) which is otherwise a magnet (i.e. Minadeo is the only school that automatically feeds to it) and has a decent reputation. Minadeo then feeds to Allderdice which is the best high school in the city and one of the best in the region (see below re comparing city and suburban schools).
About 2/3 of Sq Hill and about 1/2 of Point Breeze feed to Colfax. Colfax is K-8 and then feeds to Allderdice. Colfax also offers more intense Spanish (I think 2X-4X a week compared to Minadeo's 1X per week). Colfax has come a long way in the last few years and has a good teaching staff--many of our friends send kids there and have been (mostly) happy. It's had more growing pains as it transitioned to K-8 and also was designated an "accelerated learning academy" due to low test scores. The "ala" designation means a longer school day and a longer school year and a special curriculum. Some view the special curriculum as overly rigid; others like it. You'll have to visit.
Linden is a German-language magnet in Point Breeze. To go to it, you have to enter a lottery (for which I think the deadline was in the fall); it used to be the feeder school for Point Breeze so Point Breeze residents get priority in the lottery... however, that may be moot if you've missed the deadline.
(Often schools have space at the end of the year through an "open enrollment" process.)
I thought Liberty was also a magnet (Spanish language) with a similar deal for Shadyside residents in the old feeder pattern but perhaps it is now a neighborhood school.
Again, the OP doesn't care about high schools and middle schools (most likely--you could always fall in love and stay). But in any case: Linden and Liberty feed to Frick International Studies Middle School and then to the IB (international baccalaureate) program at Schenley high school. There are reorganization plans afoot and probably the future will be a small 6-12 IB-focused school that will be the continuation of all the language magnets.
If you do have high school in mind, note that Shadyside does not feed to Allderdice but to Peabody which does not have a terribly good academic reputation.... this tends to be why Sq Hill and Point Breeze attract more families and Shadyside attracts more singles, pre-child couples, the childless, etc. But these are generalizations and there are plenty of happy families in Shadyside who make the school-thing work through magnet schools or private schools.
[The general comment re city schools vs. suburban schools. When you compare schools, it's not a bad idea to do two things: 1) look at the socioeconomic profile (how many free lunches; how many below the poverty line) and then at the test scores. Often the question should be not what are the test scores but are these test scores higher than I would have thought. If so, you know something positive is happening in the classrooms. 2) Visit the school and talk to parents and the principal. A lot of city schools have reputations that have little to do with the reality of what goes on there.
Finally, I always point out that if you care enough about the education of your children to make it a factor in where you live, your children will probably do fine at almost any school. The question then is whether the school has the resources and opportunities you would like your kid to have. I can't speak for all the city schools, but I can say that the schools in Squirrel Hill that feed into Allderdice have all these resources. I can also say that Allderdice offers AP courses, lots of extracurricular activities, etc. And if you are the sort who judges the success of the high school based on how many kids get into Harvard or Yale, I think you will find that Allderdice sends as many or more kids to those kind of schools as any suburban school (more than most; probably about the same as Fox Chapel and Mount Lebanon) and about the same number as most of the fancy private schools as well.]
Re housing: In Shadyside, you will find more buildings, small and large, run by and/or rented out by the realtors mentioned. In Squirrel Hill, you will find more duplexes and houses rented out by the owners. There are a few larger apartment buildings and garden apartment complexes in Squirrel Hilll as well.
If your appointment at UPMC includes an academic appointment in the Pitt Medical school at well, you should have access to the Pitt off-campus housing office which maintains files on different landlords so you can check complaints, etc.
Likepgh covered the school question well and as other posters have said, Squirrel Hill and Shadyside will both meet your needs for housing. It will probably be easier to walk to shopping in Squirrel Hill. There are parks in both areas but Schenley and Frick Parks are both easily accessible from Squirrel Hill.
Point Breeze is very nice if you are in the right area. However, you are right across the street from Homewood which you probably want to avoid.
i think im leaning towards squirrel hill or the part of point breeze right next to linden elementary now.
Likepgh says that most places in squirrel hill are rented out by the owners. what's he best way to be able to find a good place in squirrel hill? i've been using craigslist for now to look around. any other ideas? any recommendations for parts of squirrel hill that are cleaner and/or otherwise more desireable than other parts?
We just moved to Point Breeze a year ago, and we love it. We do not have any children yet, but we are very comfortable raising children in the neighborhood. We live just around the corner from Linden Elementary, and there are a few playgrounds in the area. The neighborhood is great - there are always people walking the streets with their kids and dogs. We are also within walking distance of Frick Park. If you go north beyond Penn Ave, the neighborhood becomes a transitional neighborhood, and is not as nice. Although, we do have some friends that live there.
My husband works at CMU, and this past summer he rode his bike to CMU a few times a week. It is doable, but you have to pick your route carefully. There are many narrow or busy streets and there are lots of hills in both directions. He now takes the bus instead. It is 2 miles, and a little long of a walk.
Some areas of Squirrel Hill are better than others, but it sometimes can vary by street. We are not currently renting, so I can't help you there. Keep checking craigslist. But the Squirrel Hill/point Breeze areas are family-friendly neighborhoods in the city.
I just thought I'd mention one more possibility, which is the part of Regent Square in Pittsburgh. Regent Square is similar in many respects to Squirrel Hill and Point Breeze, including that it is full of people who have come to Pittsburgh for the hospitals and universities in Oakland, and has its own little downtown with some neat shops, restaurants, and even an art house movie theatre. I noted the Pittsburgh part of Regent Square in particular (other parts are in Swissvale, Wilkinsburg, and Edgewood) because it is served by Minadeo Elementary.
By the way, to find apartments you might consider calling a few real estate agents in the area and see what they would be willing to do for you (it might not cost much, if anything).
Oh, and biking doesn't work very well in Pittsburgh no matter where you live. It rains a bit too much and the city drivers (and pedestrians ) seem to hate bike riders. When I lived there I would ride my bike to work when the weather was good and I got yielded at more times than I can count. Ride on some streets and its a death wish, ride on the side-walks and people start yielding about it.
That's not true at all; there is a HUGE bike culture here, many people using them for their primary mode of transportation and others like myself who just love to bike. I moved from the fourth largest city in PA (Erie) to the second largest (Pittsburgh) and feel ten times as safe riding ANYWHERE in Pittsburgh than I did in Erie. The city is constantly adding bike lines to major traffic arteries.
i think im leaning towards squirrel hill or the part of point breeze right next to linden elementary now.
Likepgh says that most places in squirrel hill are rented out by the owners. what's he best way to be able to find a good place in squirrel hill? i've been using craigslist for now to look around. any other ideas? any recommendations for parts of squirrel hill that are cleaner and/or otherwise more desireable than other parts?
thanks again.
I'm not sure which school is on Reynolds Street in Point Breeze, but that's my favorite street in the city. You have the Frick Park Market and Jims Barber Shop near Frick Park and just down the street is Point Brugge Cafe and Pinos, great eating establishments.
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