What are Pittsburgh's peer cities? (Philadelphia, Lawrenceville: homes, shops, nightlife)

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by Lo-Fi

Columbus is terrible as a college city, too. Lacks that nice, dense urban core full of interesting options adjacent to campus.

Columbus as a whole grew up and out too late...and then too quickly when it finally did. The result is maybe the most pathetic and downtrodden downtown for a city its size anywhere in the country, and then 750,000 people worth of urban sprawl, without the accompanying urbanity to make it worthwhile.

Easily my least favorite city that I've ever had the misfortune to call home for a time. And nowhere near being peer to Pittsburgh, Cleveland, or Cinci in any arena but economic. Couldn't get out fast enough.

I prefer it to Indy though.

[airwave09]

Originally Posted by gladhands

I certainly don't think Minneapolis is a peer city. While I personally prefer Pittsburgh, Minneapolis beats Pittsburgh on a TON of metrics. Arlington almost doesn't count, as it's part of a Metroplex.

Are you counting just the city itself or including St. Paul and other parts of the metro area?

[Lo-Fi]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

I prefer it to Indy though.

Well, sure. I prefer Clinton to Trump, but it's hard to believe any sane person would want anything to do with either of them.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

I prefer it to Indy though.

Indy has nothing like German Village, which is a nice, intact, 19th century neighborhood with a unique vibe (if a bit too gentrified now). Indy's best neighborhoods (and the remainder of the nice older neighborhoods in Columbus) are basically clones of Highland Park or Friendship.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Indy has nothing like German Village, which is a nice, intact, 19th century neighborhood with a unique vibe (if a bit too gentrified now). Indy's best neighborhoods (and the remainder of the nice older neighborhoods in Columbus) are basically clones of Highland Park or Friendship.

I'm curious as to what constitutes "too gentrified"?

Indy doesn't really have 19th century neighborhoods, but there are some pretty analogous neighborhoods. Broad Ripple is Shadyside sans chains, Fountain Square is Lawrenceville with different architecture, Irvington is Regent Square with a bigger business district, Mass Ave's Business district is a less alcohol-focused South Side.

I'd say Indy is notably missing a Strip District and Bloomfield. Pittsburgh is missing the more useful downtown with regards to nightlife and retail.

[gladhands]

Originally Posted by ferraris

I'm curious as to what constitutes "too gentrified"?

Indy doesn't really have 19th century neighborhoods, but there are some pretty analogous neighborhoods. Broad Ripple is Shadyside sans chains, Fountain Square is Lawrenceville with different architecture, Irvington is Regent Square with a bigger business district, Mass Ave's Business district is a less alcohol-focused South Side.

I'd say Indy is notably missing a Strip District and Bloomfield. Pittsburgh is missing the more useful downtown with regards to nightlife and retail.

I've never been to Indianapolis, but I think Pittsburgh's downtown night life is better than people give it credit for being. Most of the newer restaurants act as bars. I will say, however, that downtown shopping is pretty sorry. It's the only thing about Pittsburgh that has gotten worse since I've lived here. Larrimors and Nettleton Shoes are literally the only reasons to shop downtown. Brooks Brothers, too, if you're into that sort of thing.

[_Buster]

Originally Posted by ferraris

I'm curious as to what constitutes "too gentrified"?

Indy doesn't really have 19th century neighborhoods, but there are some pretty analogous neighborhoods. Broad Ripple is Shadyside sans chains, Fountain Square is Lawrenceville with different architecture, Irvington is Regent Square with a bigger business district, Mass Ave's Business district is a less alcohol-focused South Side.

I'd say Indy is notably missing a Strip District and Bloomfield. Pittsburgh is missing the more useful downtown with regards to nightlife and retail.

It looks like a few of these comparisons are off in terms of the size of the districts though. For example, isn't Fountain Square much smaller than Lawrenceville, and lacks the housing density of Lawrenceville for sure, by a long shot.

And isn't the Mass Ave district a lot smaller than South side? also you mentioned that Indy's downtown is more useful for nightlife & retail, but isn't the Mass Ave district in downtown anyway? So the comparisons don't seem equivalent at all to me.

But full disclosure I have had no real experience with Indianapolis - I'm just checking it out on streetview.

[_Buster]

Originally Posted by gladhands

I've never been to Indianapolis, but I think Pittsburgh's downtown night life is better than people give it credit for being. Most of the newer restaurants act as bars. I will say, however, that downtown shopping is pretty sorry. It's the only thing about Pittsburgh that has gotten worse since I've lived here. Larrimors and Nettleton Shoes are literally the only reasons to shop downtown. Brooks Brothers, too, if you're into that sort of thing.

Agree on both points. maybe if the PDP came up with a year-round weekend/evening parking validation for shopping, that would convince some retail shops to give it more consideration.

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by ferraris

I'm curious as to what constitutes "too gentrified"?

Indy doesn't really have 19th century neighborhoods, but there are some pretty analogous neighborhoods. Broad Ripple is Shadyside sans chains, Fountain Square is Lawrenceville with different architecture, Irvington is Regent Square with a bigger business district, Mass Ave's Business district is a less alcohol-focused South Side.

I'd say Indy is notably missing a Strip District and Bloomfield. Pittsburgh is missing the more useful downtown with regards to nightlife and retail.

The layout and architecture is a major reason why the cores of northeastern, and a few selected cities outside of the region (Cincy, St. Louis, NO, SF, Chi for starters) are better than those of places like Indy.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by _Buster

It looks like a few of these comparisons are off in terms of the size of the districts though. For example, isn't Fountain Square much smaller than Lawrenceville, and lacks the housing density of Lawrenceville for sure, by a long shot.

And isn't the Mass Ave district a lot smaller than South side? And also you mentioned that Indy's downtown is more useful for nightlife & retail, but isn't the Mass Ave district in downtown anyway? So the comparisons don't seem equivalent at all to me.

But full disclosure I have no real Indy experience - I'm just checking it out on streetview.

Fountain Square may be smaller than Lawrenceville, but they are both hipstery slowly turning yuppie places and have very similar businesses, right down to the bowling alley and cider house. There's lots of flips and construction going on too.

Yeah I guess Mass Ave is actually in downtown's boundaries technically. Kind of similar to how the Cultural District is in downtown Pittsburgh. Mass Ave feels more distinct from the rest of downtown Indy though, while the cultural district definitely feels like an integral part of downtown Pittsburgh.

I don't think you're ever going to find neighborhoods that 100% correlate to each other in different cities, but the examples I gave are pretty similar feeling to me. Part of it is definitely just the vibe, which is hard to pick up from streetview.