What are Pittsburgh's peer cities? (Lancaster, York: moving, renewal, association)

[_Buster]

Originally Posted by gladhands

Wow, I was totally wrong on that. Why did I think New Orleans metro was 2.4 million?

I think a lot of people have the impression that New Orleans is a larger metro/city than it really is - it must be just the fame that it has and the fact that it has so much tourism. Having an NFL team probably contributes to it too.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by gladhands

I think a big part of Pittsburgh's problem is Pennsylvania. There's no reason to have 43 school districts in Allegheny county other than creating semi-private school districts and police forces for affluent villages. That doesn't really fly in most of the country.

That seems to be the case all over the NE. The midwest, not so much, and I lived in the rural midwest. Small farm towns cooperated to form multi-town districts. The west, not at all! Big districts are the norm here. In some of the smaller areas, there are county-wide school districts.

Originally Posted by Katarina Witt

Actually, I agree. However, I'm not feeling well and can't expound upon it right now.

OK, feeling a little better. When we first moved to Denver in 1980, the Denver MSA was about half the size of Pittsburgh's. 1,450,768 vs 2,648,991. Denver the city was slightly larger, 492,000 to Pittsburgh's 423,000. (Wiki) Denver grew while Pittsburgh shrank. Makes a big difference. MSAs now: 2,800,000 to 2,350,000.
https://www.recenter.tamu.edu/data/p...Lakewood%2C_CO

Looking at some of this "peer" stuff, I think Pittsburgh probably still has the edge on higher education. There's no equivalent to CMU there. The University of Colorado has a downtown campus, and the University of Denver is a private school, fairly highly ranked, but no CMU. Even Colorado School of Mines in Golden is not CMU caliber.

Cultural Activities-Pittsburgh certainly has lots of long-term facilities, but Denver's no slouch with its museums, and the Denver Center for the Performing Arts. Apparently, from my readings, the "Pittsburgh Trust" thing is based on the metro Denver Scientific and Cultural Facilities District.

Sports-Well, we have five major league sports teams-the Broncos (where I shall be tomorrow night), Rockies, Nuggets (NBA) and Rapids (soccer).

Health Care-the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center moved out of Denver to a new campus in Aurora, just across the city line. It's a fabulous facility with everything UPMC has-a big, new children's hospital, a "general" hospital (UCH), a medical, dental, and nursing school.

Economy-Denver's is rolling again. We have one of the lowest UE levels in the country. Big telecom, IT centers.

Restaurants-lots of them. I don't really know how to compare the two; I'm not real familar with Pittsburgh's restaurant scene. Denver has everything.

Parks-beautiful park system, including the mountain parks system. Here's where my daughter go married. (Not in the amphitheater.) This is a Denver city park, didn't cost much. https://www.google.com/search?q=red+...w=1750&bih=831

Walk score-"38% of Denver residents have a Walk Score of 70 or above. Denver's most walkable neighborhoods are Lodo, Golden Triangle, Capitol Hill. Denver's least walkable neighborhoods are Stapleton, Gateway-Green Valley Ranch, Southwestern Denver. 80% have a Walk Score of at least 50—and 20% live in Car-Dependent neighborhoods. Learn more about Denver's walkability." About Walk Score l Denver's Walkable Neighborhoods l What does a Walk Score mean? l LIVE Urban Real Estate

[pwduvall]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I've never considered Baltimore to be a peer of Pittsburgh, in part because I thought it was, similar to Detroit, too big of a city to directly compare to us. But the Baltimore metro is only around 400,000 more than us, and a little smaller than the Saint Louis metro, which I have always considered a peer city. Therefore I don't really have an issue including Baltimore in the comparison.

You have to remember that the Pittsburgh Metro area has twice as many square miles as Baltimore's. Baltimore's MSA is small enough that you can drive across it in an hour in most places. Saint Louis' metro area is way larger in land area than Pittsburgh's. Comparing metro area populations can be tricky because some are so much denser than others.

[Delco21]

Originally Posted by MountainDewGuy

Then why have so many people been moving there, and leaving here?

Good question. As I see nobody has answered it yet. This is where Pittsburgh and Cleveland are so similar. Pittsburgh has joined Cleveland in a superiority complex against Columbus. Both people from Pittsburgh and Cleveland will give a million reasons as to why their respective city is so much better. Yet it is not reflected in population numbers. If both places had so much to offer they would grow as well.

People vote with their feet. They are voting for Columbus and not Cleveland or Pittsburgh. Let's remember the good old days when Pittsburgh and Cleveland were important cities. Forget learning about 50 years of mistakes and misdeeds. Let's bash the growing metro and stay the course as it was 1950.

You can have your bests lists. We will gladly beat you for smart city money and take the growing tax base to make our city and suburbs better.

Peace out.

Delco21

[JoeP]

No, Pittsburgh does not have an superiority complex regarding Columbus. I doubt Cleveland does either.
What an odd statement.

As for population change - That's complicated. It's not a simple as a preference.

However based on the immature trolling & comments above, I don't think that anything I saw matters to them. Peace out indeed. Take your trolling elsewhere.

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by Delco21

Good question. As I see nobody has answered it yet. This is where Pittsburgh and Cleveland are so similar. Pittsburgh has joined Cleveland in a superiority complex against Columbus. Both people from Pittsburgh and Cleveland will give a million reasons as to why their respective city is so much better. Yet it is not reflected in population numbers. If both places had so much to offer they would grow as well.

People vote with their feet. They are voting for Columbus and not Cleveland or Pittsburgh. Let's remember the good old days when Pittsburgh and Cleveland were important cities. Forget learning about 50 years of mistakes and misdeeds. Let's bash the growing metro and stay the course as it was 1950.

You can have your bests lists. We will gladly beat you for smart city money and take the growing tax base to make our city and suburbs better.

Peace out.

Delco21

Cleveland and Cincy definitely look down on Columbus. I don't think Columbus is really on Pittsburgh's radar. I rarely hear people talking about Columbus. The cities that matter most to Pittsburgh, are; Cleveland, Philly, DC, and NYC.

[bluecarebear]

Originally Posted by gladhands

Hospitals:

Columbus has no hospitals approching the prestige and national rankings of UPMC

The city UPMC campuses aren't that great and I have personal experience to back up that statement. I also know those employed by UPMC and they treat their employees poorly like every other major corporation. If this is one of the top hospitals in the country, then our country is screwed.

[bluecarebear]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

St. Louis and Cincinnati. That's it. These are Victorian river cities with mid 19th century urban neighborhoods and some similarities among the vernacular architecture and eras of growth. I don't think the Great Lake cities -- Buffalo, Cleveland, Milwaukee, etc. have much in common with Pittsburgh, aside from being former industrial cities in the rust-belt. These cities are younger than Pittsburgh. The Lake cities have a completely different vibe and aesthetic! Baltimore has more of an East Coast vibe and identity, and feels like a bigger, older, more urban city than Pittsburgh, which it is. Columbus and Indy are much more suburban in character, and flatter, and feel like mainstream America (aside from a few select neighborhoods). Pgh has those neighborhoods, like Spring Garden and Woods Run, that are straight up Appalachian Gothic.

Agreed.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by bluecarebear

I also know those employed by UPMC and they treat their employees poorly like every other major corporation. If this is one of the top hospitals in the country, then our country is screwed.

That's why I listed having state government as a major plus for Columbus. That meant that the largest local employer had a strong union. A strong base of union jobs is essential to keep up wage wages, especially for those without a degree.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

St. Louis and Cincinnati. That's it. These are Victorian river cities with mid 19th century urban neighborhoods and some similarities among the vernacular architecture and eras of growth. I don't think the Great Lake cities -- Buffalo, Cleveland, Milwaukee, etc. have much in common with Pittsburgh, aside from being former industrial cities in the rust-belt. These cities are younger than Pittsburgh. The Lake cities have a completely different vibe and aesthetic! Baltimore has more of an East Coast vibe and identity, and feels like a bigger, older, more urban city than Pittsburgh, which it is. Columbus and Indy are much more suburban in character, and flatter, and feel like mainstream America (aside from a few select neighborhoods). Pgh has those neighborhoods, like Spring Garden and Woods Run, that are straight up Appalachian Gothic.

Pittsburgh-founded 1758
St. Louis-1764
Cincy-1783
Buffalo-1789
Cleveland-1796

Milwaukee-1846

If you're looking at age, you're pretty much limiting yourself to cities east of Pittsburgh, with a few outliers. I was surprised about St. Louis being so old.