Neighborhood of the week: Central Business District (downtown)

[norcider]

I'd like to add that town is probably safer now that it has been in decades. You wouldn't find large groups of 20 and 30 somethings walking around Penn and Liberty after 5PM 25 years ago when there was a serious drug and prostitution problem in that area. Town has a couple of hot spots which I still do not consider dangerous. It's all relative and if your experience here runs less than a decade you probably have a different view of things. This is especially true if you were living in a more rural or even suburban area. Perception.

[Lobick]

Originally Posted by UKyank

There's some former bar/club that was somewhere between Blvd of the Allies & 376 in that relatively dead zone there that was apparently popular enough that multiple people i work with rave nostalgic about it if anyone knows the name, where it was & why it was popular (or was that area of downtown just more lively in general).

Froggy's. Never had the pleasure myself.

Obituary: Steve 'Froggy' Morris / Raspy-voiced restaurateur, owner of legendary Market Street bar | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Pittsburgh Photographer- Mark Bolster: A legend passes on...Ode to Froggy's

[Geeo]

The bar/restaurant on Market Street was called Froggy's and was an institution. Reporters and editors from the Press and Post-Gazette hung out there, judges and lawyers would frequent, and Froggy's had the strongest drinks this side of the Mississippi. I think the 1980s was the last era where people went out and got bombed at lunch, then went back to work.

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by Pat Answers

My biggest treat back in the day was to put on dressier clothes and take the streetcar into town. We always went shopping in Hornes, and had lunch in Stouffers. Is that still there? Then we'd go up the street and see a movie. Later on, I worked in Gateway 4, about the 20th floor, thought I was really up in the world!

I sorta miss that. As a young girl it was a huge treat to go to town. Oh, lunch at Woolworth's counter... and once in a while a banana split in the Tick Tock room in Kaufmans. Is any of that still there?

I am really enjoying reading about the burg.

The Stouffers restaurant became a Mcdonald's. The original location is still there and it has been restored to its original luster. The art deco building now houses Hello Bistro. The entire block has been historically preserved.

Kaufmans /Macy's closed last year along with Tic Tock's. The building will house a boutique hotel and luxury apartments with first floor retail.

Horne's department store now houses offices for Highmark.

The Woolworth's building is now a YMCA with apartments on top.

Many of the landmarks you referenced are still in existence but have been historically preserved and reimagined.

Gateway Center 4 and the entire complex looks just as good as it did back then. The State Office and AT&T buildings now house luxury apartments as well.

I miss the $3.00 fish sandwiches at Woolworth's.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

Eh. Let's go for a walk down Smithfield Street. And then hang out around the Wood Street T Station and wait for a bus after work. Then we'll talk about feeling comfortable or uncomfortable.

What I mean is that there isn't some skid row, ghetto residential portion, or gang territory portion, of downtown that people would want to avoid. The Wood Street T stop could make someone uncomfortable, but it's essentially just one side of one building, and not even for the entire day. I don't know what you mean about Smithfield at all.

If you're a white collar commuter or middle class restaurant or theater-goer you can't ask for much more out of a major US city's downtown.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by ferraris

What I mean is that there isn't some skid row, ghetto residential portion, or gang territory portion, of downtown that people would want to avoid. The Wood Street T stop could make someone uncomfortable, but it's essentially just one side of one building, and not even for the entire day. I don't know what you mean about Smithfield at all.

It's funny, because I've noticed essentially every city out west seems to have a "skid row" type area right near downtown inhabited by homeless people and drug addicts, while such areas really don't exist here in the east. I'm guessing part of this is due to the weather not being conducive to being homeless, and another part is because with lower housing costs, marginally employed people can usually find somewhere to live affordably.

There certainly are still a couple buildings though which have a mostly low-income population. 301 Wood Street is a 258-unit SRO building run by Action Housing. Midtown Towers at 643 Liberty Avenue is still low-income as well, as is the Roosevelt Arms Apartments at 607 Penn Avenue. I don't have any issue with these buildings being downtown, but I wish there was the money to restore the facades a bit better, as they look so ugly with those small mid-century windows crammed into the upper floor window openings.

[tyovan4]

Originally Posted by eschaton

"Teh poors" go Downtown for three reasons. First, because it's the transit nexus of the county. Second, because social services are located there. Third, to panhandle. Aside from criminalizing panhandling again, there's not much the city could do. It's not like we're going to build a second downtown for poor people after all.

They could actively enforce regulations at Market Square. I recall there was previous discussion on this subforum about the differences between Market Square and PPG Place.

And there could be proactive policing around the Wood Street T Station instead of the entirely reactive policing that enabled things to get out of hand this summer.

With the shootings that marred the Regatta, it amazed me that there were no incidents at Light Up Night. I asked my ex-wife not to take our son to that event, as I had safety concerns. But the police announced there would be a Zero Tolerance approach to Light Up Night - and that approach meant that no problems developed. But why is it ok to let Wood Street be the OK Corral (one of my favorite posts by UKyank) the other days of the year? And why is it ok to go softy-softy and allow other events to be marred by out-of-control kids?

If there is a political will, then there is a way to keep this area safe - as Light Up Night demonstrated.

Originally Posted by norcider

I'd like to add that town is probably safer now that it has been in decades. You wouldn't find large groups of 20 and 30 somethings walking around Penn and Liberty after 5PM 25 years ago when there was a serious drug and prostitution problem in that area. Town has a couple of hot spots which I still do not consider dangerous. It's all relative and if your experience here runs less than a decade you probably have a different view of things. This is especially true if you were living in a more rural or even suburban area. Perception.

I grew up in Lancaster County and have been here for 7 years.

Originally Posted by ferraris

What I mean is that there isn't some skid row, ghetto residential portion, or gang territory portion, of downtown that people would want to avoid. The Wood Street T stop could make someone uncomfortable, but it's essentially just one side of one building, and not even for the entire day. I don't know what you mean about Smithfield at all.

If you're a white collar commuter or middle class restaurant or theater-goer you can't ask for much more out of a major US city's downtown.

Someone is going to get killed at Wood Street if the City doesn't keep up recent efforts to take that space back from the young hoodlums that cause trouble there.

[gg]

Wow, Froggy's was mentioned. I have a lot to offer on this subject and have motivation to do so. Sure, most have me on ignore, but I have watched Pittsburgh transform from the days Liberty Ave was filled with hookers, peep shows and penny arcades. If younger people only knew. Long ago Pittsburgh had a lot of money floating around and hookers and peep shows ruled all along Liberty Ave. Pittsburgh lost 1/2 its population and it was hurting and hurting bad. People had trouble just living here and literally starving and having trouble clothing themselves. It was a tough town with crime, but the crime was more about trying to eat, not drugs. There were pimps and all kinds of crazies downtown. Being mugged was common. A lot has changed. Pittsburgh Yinzers were had working and ready to help, but didn't have the education to do so, but they filled in when it came to construction and building. They were a tough lot and Pittsburgh would be a hole if it wasn't for them because they wanted to work. Somehow downtown slowly cleaned itself up. The will of the people wanted Liberty Ave to clean up its act and it did. Gone are all the crap holes. It almost seems surreal to me in a way. How did they do that? Downtown is amazing! Those of us that witnessed the transformation are more than proud. I still can't believe what this city accomplished. The Yinzers have quite the work ethic and we owe a lot to them. They stepped in and were proud. Still are.

Downtown is almost as great as it was when I was really little in the early 70's. Sure Kaufmann's is no longer there that made Macy's look like a K-mart, but that is okay. Those days where comping to an end in smaller cities like Pittsburgh. We can't have a 5th Ave like in NYC and that is okay. We are a smaller market. I am very proud of how our city is moving in a great direction. How about how many people using the riverfront for exercise and enjoyment? I never could have dreamt that. The point is amazing and the skyline? Wow! Love our city! Sorry for a long post, but I know only about 2 people will read it anyway. Can't blame them.

[szug-bot]

Well, I am reading it but I just disagree on several things.

I question the muggings - were there really ANY significant number of muggings in downtown Pittsburgh? I just never recall it being a problem. In fact, I do remember a night time radio host (Honsberger?) who was discussing his shock that a mugging actually was reported (early 90s?).

There is at least one late night massage parlor downtown, I think on Fourth Avenue. (Did I also see on that is 24-hours on Carson Street?). Maybe that thing has returned, but it is more subtle, and "hands on in privacy", rather than bookstore/magazine counters of yesteryear.

Was the cleanup was the "will of the people"? I just think the city leaders went ahead and planned long term. I don't think Pittsburghers, who weren't coming downtown much anyway, started picketing or did a mail campaign or anything.

A subway was discussed as long ago as the 1940s, I remember reading. I only wish they did put in a more extensive, further-reaching system back then when funding it might not have been as crippling.