Neighborhood of the week: East Liberty (Pittsburgh, Etna: low income, rent, how much)

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by xdv8

NIMBYs hard at work:

https://www.facebook.com/SaveEnrightParklet/

https://www.facebook.com/BuildPennSquare/

Their tactic seems to involve actively talking down East Liberty to discourage any investment.

The guy who runs the latter page is a former member of this forum who was banned who repeatedly focused on how East Liberty was not going to turn around. I see he cited this thread in one of his posts. Heh.

[xdv8]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The guy who runs the latter page is a former member of this forum who was banned who repeatedly focused on how East Liberty was not going to turn around. I see he cited this thread in one of his posts. Heh.

He's a uniquely miserable human. He's preaching to his own choir, because to me he seems unhinged. Scumbergs? I personally know and dislike many in that family and still wouldn't get that personal.

What's really funny in that post is what he says about the outside-in approach to redeveloping EL. Wouldn't that involve the western gateway, where Penn Plaza was located? Pure NIMBYism, I can't say it more. Don't let the concern for the poor fool you, they oppose all change.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by xdv8

I'm a fan of this administration, but they dropped the ball by not getting ahead of the issue.

I'm Facebook friends with Mayor Peduto, and I remember last year he posted an update along the lines of (paraphrasing) "New study shows so much new development in East Liberty is occurring, and it's without any displacement occurring...yada, yada, yada." Dozens and dozens of us who personally know people who are being gentrified out of rentals in this city went after him in the comments, and I think that finally made him sit back and realize "Gee, maybe there IS a shortage of affordable rental housing in this city."

It's too little, too late, though. Back in Northern Virginia developers had to offer things known as "proffers" sometimes to get things approved (fancy words for bribes, if you will). If they wanted to build 400 luxury apartments in an emerging neighborhood, that was just fine; however, they'd have to agree to buy the city a new fire truck or handsomely landscape the lot across the street, or promise that their next project would be 25% affordably-priced, etc. Walnut Capital and Mosites are making money hand over fist with their Bakery Living and EastSide Bond projects, respectively, and they STILL would have made tidy profits if they had to incorporate, let's say, 10% of their units as being "affordably-priced" to those earning a certain percentage of the median household income.

If even 10% of the units in both Bakery Living and EastSide Bond were ordered by the city to be "affordably-priced", then the last 20 or 30 people stuck in Penn Plaza because of the city's affordable rental shortage wouldn't be in this predicament right now. Penn Plaza could be ethically vacated, razed, and then this new project could be built where a few dozen lucky former Penn Plaza residents could move right back into BETTER apartments in a couple of years above the new Whole Foods and beside hundreds of yuppies. Oh, and I've made food deliveries to Penn Plaza before. The buildings were disgusting.

Also, I don't understand the elitism surrounding "rich people don't want to live by poor people." Look at the Lower Hill District. When I was a Postmates courier (which, sadly, I'm about to go back to doing since my primary job and overtime alone just aren't cutting it here anymore, but I digress) I had several regulars who lived in/around Crawford Square who were affluent. They were living literally right next to some people who were impoverished. How much crime do you hear about at Crawford Square? Very little. I do know for a fact there's been a spate of car break-ins recently in nearby blocks, but that's it.

Why can't East Liberty be the same? Do you think rich people would have said "Ewwww! Poor people!" and NOT rented any units in EastSide Bond or Bakery Living? Now because, as usual, leaders in this city aren't ahead of curves, we have this awful Penn Plaza debacle that will probably end up costing city taxpayers six figures in legal fees.

[xdv8]

This can't be right:

"Court documents obtained by Channel 11 said that the developer is currently demolishing one of the buildings before the agreed-upon deadline of March 31, while people are still living there"

City seeks injunction over East Liberty development | WPXI

My guess is that they are dismantling unoccupied parts of re building to prepare for full demo. I guess I'll find out in a few hours on my way home.

[WhoIsStanwix?]

Originally Posted by xdv8

He's a uniquely miserable human. He's preaching to his own choir, because to me he seems unhinged. Scumbergs? I personally know and dislike many in that family and still wouldn't get that personal.

What's really funny in that post is what he says about the outside-in approach to redeveloping EL. Wouldn't that involve the western gateway, where Penn Plaza was located? Pure NIMBYism, I can't say it more. Don't let the concern for the poor fool you, they oppose all change.

Interesting note on his FB page on the lack of update from S&P on their potential move to Penn & Highland. I won't mention his take on the matter, but my take based on discussion with some of the folks who manage Spoon is that the owners haven't yet come up with a good concept to replace the existing BRGR location, which would sit vacant if they moved. I believe (not certain) that S&P owns the property that they are in on Centre. It is a low risk option to stay.

[Joe Magarac]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Walnut Capital and Mosites are making money hand over fist with their Bakery Living and EastSide Bond projects, respectively, and they STILL would have made tidy profits if they had to incorporate, let's say, 10% of their units as being "affordably-priced" to those earning a certain percentage of the median household income.

How do you know that Walnut Capital and Mosites "are making money hand over fist?" You don't. Walnut Capital and Mosites are private corporations, and their profits - or lack thereof - are not publicly disclosed. You don't know how much the buildings cost; how many units in each are occupied; or whether the rental income received from those units each month is equal to or greater than the loan payments that the developers have to make each month.


A recent PG article indicated that the East End rental market is cooling, that the market for high-end units like Bakery Living and Eastside Bond is "saturated," and that the developers are essentially just trying to "make enough to keep their buildings afloat for the time being" so that they can earn a reasonable return on investment over time. If that's true, then Walnut Capital and Mosites are actually not making a "tidy profit" - yet - from either development; they just hope to do so over the long run.


FWIW, I don't work for or know anyone at Walnut Capital or Mosites. But I do know what I don't know, and one thing I don't know is how much money landlords and real estate developers make on a given project.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by Joe Magarac

How do you know that Walnut Capital and Mosites "are making money hand over fist?" You don't. Walnut Capital and Mosites are private corporations, and their profits - or lack thereof - are not publicly disclosed. You don't know how much the buildings cost; how many units in each are occupied; or whether the rental income received from those units each month is equal to or greater than the loan payments that the developers have to make each month.


A recent PG article indicated that the East End rental market is cooling, that the market for high-end units like Bakery Living and Eastside Bond is "saturated," and that the developers are essentially just trying to "make enough to keep their buildings afloat for the time being" so that they can earn a reasonable return on investment over time. If that's true, then Walnut Capital and Mosites are actually not making a "tidy profit" - yet - from either development; they just hope to do so over the long run.


FWIW, I don't work for or know anyone at Walnut Capital or Mosites. But I do know what I don't know, and one thing I don't know is how much money landlords and real estate developers make on a given project.

If this site is correct, then it looks like only 40 of the units at EastSide Bond are still available:

Eastside Bond - Spirit Street, #122 | Pittsburgh, PA Apartments for Rent | Rent.com®

40 available units out of 360 total units is a vacancy rate of around 11%. According to this media article, the vacancy rate was 50% about 10 months ago when the building was still being built:

KDKA Investigates: Will The Luxury Apartment Boom Go Bust? « CBS Pittsburgh

If I'm not mistaken the studio apartments there start at $1,335/month, and the rates go up to $4,330/month for the largest units.

If you can't generate a profit while charging rents that high with a vacancy rate that has gone from 50% to 11% and will likely be near 0% in the coming months, then I don't know what to say.

[xdv8]

Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix?

Interesting note on his FB page on the lack of update from S&P on their potential move to Penn & Highland. I won't mention his take on the matter, but my take based on discussion with some of the folks who manage Spoon is that the owners haven't yet come up with a good concept to replace the existing BRGR location, which would sit vacant if they moved. I believe (not certain) that S&P owns the property that they are in on Centre. It is a low risk option to stay.

That makes a lot of sense. There was some permit activity on that location recently but it didn't give any clues. I'd tend to agree with your take, which is more sensible and passion free than Build Penn Square's.

FWIW, I like their Penn Square design, especially with the office development that's going to be built on the corner across from Citizens/Target @ Penn/Center. But it seems very expensive for a park and his approach is toxic and I'm not surprised he's ineffective at getting the city's attention.

[lprmesia]

[gg]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Why can't East Liberty be the same? Do you think rich people would have said "Ewwww! Poor people!"

I don't think most people care how much money someone has so much, it is a crime element. People just don't want to be robbed or feel unsafe. You can't blame people for that. I wish the Whole Food would have went through and nice apartments would be built. I think the developers sure bend over backwards for such a small population due to all the bleeding hearts that are actually creating weaker and weaker people by giving them everything, not to mention it keeps a group of people poor and dependent. Wish the idiots complaining could see real life better, because they are just adding to the problem creating more dependency.