Why can't they extend the T to the Strip (Pittsburgh: cost of, vs)

[szug-bot]

Originally Posted by Bubby Brister

I also believe the tunnel between Steel Plaza and Penn Station is single-tracked. Not sure if it ever got much ridership when it was in use.

They could lay tracks along the busway to the Oakland exit and then use surface streets (perhaps Bigelow/Bayard to get close to the universities. The T to Oakland doesn't necessarily need to be subterranean, nor does it need to pass through Uptown or the Hill, nor does it need a ton of stops along Forbes or Fifth to be successful. Giving all of those South Hills people a transferless ride to Oakland would be well worth making a few sacrifices after more than a century of hoping.

But why? The busway is already in use and doing well with the "P" buses.

I don't share this vision of light rail. What would work better is a small bus, circulatory system. The parking lot along Second Avenue Mercy Hospital (there might be others) have convenient, viable loop routes through downtown.

Rail is...cute, I guess, and there may be a strong case for it through the Strip District because of projected constant ridership - morning rush, afternoon rush, nightlife, weekend tourist use, etc. I think the costs for startup and then maintenance might, in the long run, not be worth it.

Throw into this that many people prefer their cars. Suppose you owned a car, lived in the Strip District, where there were a light rail thing (at this point, if one can afford a dwelling in the Strip District, chances are that person will have a car). On a weekend, are you going to use it to get around? Heck no - it would take too long. Plus the fact you have privacy in your own vehicle.

I like the idea of rail transportation, but the cons need to be put out there. Oh, and the T from the South Hills into town? It's....just so slow. That is one reason I moved back to the Golden Triangle.

[szug-bot]

ah...i think i got it now, at least part of the allure:


Rail = people of your own "kind", more or less. Clean, trendy, cool. Pretty women, professionals....

Bus = people you don't want to associate with. (What IS that smell on the 88???? I'll give you that much - that bus is always dirty and odorous.)

[Lost_In_Translation]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

ah...i think i got it now, at least part of the allure:


Rail = people of your own "kind", more or less. Clean, trendy, cool. Pretty women, professionals....

Bus = people you don't want to associate with. (What IS that smell on the 88???? I'll give you that much - that bus is always dirty and odorous.)

In New York City, all public transit smells

[Bubby Brister]

I specifically said it'd give South Hills people a transferless trip to Oakland and THAT is why it's worth it. Not because rail is cute, but because transfers suck especially with how they are laid out in Pittsburgh many times.

Maybe the T is slow and you moved for that reason but those trains are packed at rush hour and a lot of those people are going to Oakland and have to transfer and would love the option of sitting on the train for another 10 minutes rather than watch 3 crowded 61's pass them by as they stand in the cold and the rain. Common sense would have used the existing tunnel and the existing PAT right of way to eliminate an existing transfer to an existing major hub of employment. Instead we spent 1/2 billion digging a tunnel under the river that leads to parking lots and stadiums. It would have been "cuter" and a hell of a lot cheaper and more efficient and useful to have extended it into Oakland, and the cheapest way would be the busway.

[_Buster]

Originally Posted by eschaton

There were plans to use the AVRR right of way through the Strip for a private commuter rail line which would run during the day, perhaps hooking up with the T. The plan didn't interface well with Buncher's plans for the Strip however - their new development basically used questionable legal practices to terminate the ROW within their land, meaning some other route would have to be taken. In addition I think AVRR couldn't get the funding for it and lost interest due to the strength of the local freight market.

There's also been a plan mooted for awhile of a downtown to Lower Lawrenceville streetcar, which would by nature travel through the Strip. I haven't heard much concrete about this either in years. The city is moving on other transit priorities.

In general, it's harder to put in new transit lines than you would think - particularly because the freight companies own all of the right of ways which aren't on streets and are loathe to give them up. On the other hand, there's nothing stopping the city from putting streetcars basically anywhere, but building new lines is capital intensive, and once you get past the marketing gimmick, they're just buses with less flexibility.

Were they seriously plannning a streetcar through the stip , but NOT directly connected into the T system!??! If so, how absurd. The tracks and even the Penn station platform are still there and ready to be used. But I guess "Streetcar" became the buzzword again amongst city planning around the country and so every city starts adding them to their plans no matter how ridiculous.

[eschaton]

The topic of merging the T with the East Busway comes up time and again. It would be pretty easy to do on one hand, given there are rail lines still under the East Busway just waiting to be uncovered, but.

1. The gauge is different than the T, so if you wanted to use the same system you'd need to lay down new track.

2. The T is slower than the East Busway.

3. You'd need to built some sort of transit stations in Wilkinsburg and Swissvale so that the East suburb surface buses which use the East Busway to get into Downtown could drop off their passengers for transfer onto the T.

I suppose you could just put rails onto the paved surface, which would allow the East Busway to be used by both tracked and tired vehicles. The problem with this is, as noted, the T is slower than the buses, meaning you'd get a row of buses stuck behind the T, which is hardly ideal.

[speagles84]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The topic of merging the T with the East Busway comes up time and again. It would be pretty easy to do on one hand, given there are rail lines still under the East Busway just waiting to be uncovered, but.

1. The gauge is different than the T, so if you wanted to use the same system you'd need to lay down new track.

2. The T is slower than the East Busway.

3. You'd need to built some sort of transit stations in Wilkinsburg and Swissvale so that the East suburb surface buses which use the East Busway to get into Downtown could drop off their passengers for transfer onto the T.

I suppose you could just put rails onto the paved surface, which would allow the East Busway to be used by both tracked and tired vehicles. The problem with this is, as noted, the T is slower than the buses, meaning you'd get a row of buses stuck behind the T, which is hardly ideal.

I don't have any specifics, but geometry of the blue line Overbrook allows the T to travel very quickly - I'd estimate around 45 mph (as fast or faster than cars on nearby 51) - near equal to the speed of the buses on the Busway.

The reason the T is slow downtown is the sharp and tight turns.

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by speagles84

I don't have any specifics, but geometry of the blue line Overbrook allows the T to travel very quickly - I'd estimate around 45 mph (as fast or faster than cars on nearby 51) - near equal to the speed of the buses on the Busway.

The reason the T is slow downtown is the sharp and tight turns.

Some of the P1's reach up to 65mph on the busway (speed limit 50 mph) I agree that the blue line speed is alot faster than the red line.

[AaronPGH]

Yeah I have always been impressed with how fast the EBA runs. Those things haul ass. I've watched the speedometer many times. Frequently hits 65mph.

[BMan_152]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I was in Manhattan this weekend for a bachelor party. I drove to Secaucus Junction station in NJ where I learned NY's Penn Station was CLOSED due to an Amtrak derailment. If Trump wants to "Make America Great Again" he needs to stop wasting time gutting the EPA, the ACA, and worrying about who's tinkling where at Target and worry more about investing in this country's embarrassing rail infrastructure.

Question.. Why should we invest in rail infrastructure? It seems like a very costly thing to invest in considering that there are alternate modes of transportation that are both faster AND cheaper.