Pittsburgh population estimated to decline 0.08% in 2016... (Bethel Park, Whitehall: townhouses, construction, wages)

[sandritz6]

Yeah the western part of the north hills is definitely growing the quickest. I live in Hampton, considered the eastern part. I'm not surprised that we saw our first small decrease as we are starting to run out of room to build and many college graduates have moved away. However, I'm surprised that neighboring Richland and West Deer lost as they seem to still be building new developments there.

[szug-bot]

Originally Posted by sandritz6

Yeah the western part of the north hills is definitely growing the quickest. I live in Hampton, considered the eastern part. I'm not surprised that we saw our first small decrease as we are starting to run out of room to build and many college graduates have moved away. However, I'm surprised that neighboring Richland and West Deer lost as they seem to still be building new developments there.

what is driving like in places like this? seems like there is usually one artery for North Hills townships (route 8 for Hampton) to get to the City or points of interest. I always imagine that place like Hampton Township were pleasant places, but the drive on local township roads would be like a drag race. And for older people, driving might be terrifying because of this.

Right now I'm looking at Maple Lane and Locust Lane in Hampton - really, how beautiful and serene. But when those cute kids one street over turn into teenagers and start driving on these narrow roads that have no sidewalk...maybe the cars are few and far in between.

Anyway, after northern VA, I swore off suburbs, but that can be an apples/oranges comparison with the suburbs of our somewhat less caffeinated metro area.

[Paul2421]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

what is driving like in places like this? seems like there is usually one artery for North Hills townships (route 8 for Hampton) to get to the City or points of interest. I always imagine that place like Hampton Township were pleasant places, but the drive on local township roads would be like a drag race. And for older people, driving might be terrifying because of this.

Right now I'm looking at Maple Lane and Locust Lane in Hampton - really, how beautiful and serene. But when those cute kids one street over turn into teenagers and start driving on these narrow roads that have no sidewalk...maybe the cars are few and far in between.

Anyway, after northern VA, I swore off suburbs, but that can be an apples/oranges comparison with the suburbs of our somewhat less caffeinated metro area.

there are plenty of main road through-ways in that area. mcknight road obviously but east of that thompson run, mt royal, and route 8 to get into the city. west of mcknight is perry highway and plenty of east and west roads very rare that people would cut through so i wouldn't be worried unless on a main road.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by Paul2421

there are plenty of main road through-ways in that area. mcknight road obviously but east of that thompson run, mt royal, and route 8 to get into the city. west of mcknight is perry highway and plenty of east and west roads very rare that people would cut through so i wouldn't be worried unless on a main road.

Middle Road as well, it parallels Route 8 with no traffic lights. Having lived in the East and South areas of the city, have to say the Great White North is much more navigable with fewer lights and stop signs.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

what is driving like in places like this? seems like there is usually one artery for North Hills townships (route 8 for Hampton) to get to the City or points of interest. I always imagine that place like Hampton Township were pleasant places, but the drive on local township roads would be like a drag race. And for older people, driving might be terrifying because of this.

Right now I'm looking at Maple Lane and Locust Lane in Hampton - really, how beautiful and serene. But when those cute kids one street over turn into teenagers and start driving on these narrow roads that have no sidewalk...maybe the cars are few and far in between.

Anyway, after northern VA, I swore off suburbs, but that can be an apples/oranges comparison with the suburbs of our somewhat less caffeinated metro area.

Hampton, Richland, Gibsonia, etc..., have little to no major congestion other than a couple hours a day during the usual "rush hours", and even then it's almost a non-issue. There are other options than just Rt.8 to get up and down the road.

There are many roads in those areas that are "beautiful and serene". Never have or heard of any issues with those "cute kids one street over". If older people are driving terrified in Hampton, Richland, Gibsonia, etc..., they shouldn't be on the road to begin with.

The median age in Gibsonia and Hampton is 40/41 years old.

Probably one of the safest areas in the country.

[ZanderX]

Quick question for folks on here. l was perusing metropolitan population changes and saw that Pittsburgh and Cleveland were the two larger-2 million plus metros-estimated to have experienced population decline during the 2010-16 period (I know Chicago and St. Louis were negative the last couple of years, but both are still positive for the 6 year period overall).

https://www.recenter.tamu.edu/data/p...ttsburgh%2C_PA According to this most of the decline is because of natural decrease, but it says that the net migration has also been negative for the last few years, which I found surprising because this https://www.census.gov/construction/...t/tb3u2016.txt Permit data says that the region constructed 4,400 units of new housing in 2016.

Do you believe these population estimates to be close to accurate or is it more likely that the net migration is stable or a bit positive instead of negative, hence the reason for such a large volume of housing construction?

Or do you think it is more likely due to the region having an older than average housing stock that is driving demand for replacement units among those already living in the area?

Would appreciate any local opinion or "gut feel" that you could offer on this.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Rivalrywednesday

In Pittsburgh I think the decline is real and it may be worse than estimated.

As a 50+ year resident, I don't feel it is going to decline much at all. Sure maybe a 100 or something silly, but I think it will bottom out soon enough. Actually, I feel we are going to increase because we are really on the radar. We might turn into another Portland. We are flat at the moment.

A reminder, I make a living on predictions, so you can take my opinion or leave it. I think I am right however.

[charisb]

Originally Posted by Rivalrywednesday

There is an economist at Pitt that gives an unbiased opinion of Pittsburgh’s growth and economy. His name is Chris Briem and he has a blog. He is worth looking up for further information. Right now the unemployment rate in Pittsburgh is higher than the national rate. The last time pittsburgh’s Unemployment rate was this much higher than national average was 1986 / 1988 when tens of thousands left the region each year. Again indicators are not good.

The unemployment rate is 4.3% in Allegheny County; the U.S. rate is 4.1%. The rate also dropped more than 1% between September 2016 and September 2017. (These are figures from bls.gov, just to clarify.)
So I am not sure where the Chicken Little stuff is coming from.

[Mtl-Cns]

Originally Posted by Rivalrywednesday

In Pittsburgh I think the decline is real and it may be worse than estimated. Pittsburgh’s age old problem is a lack of good paying jobs and economic opportunity. People are moving elsewhere for better pay and career opportunities. The argument from locals is everywhere is like Pittsburgh. That is just not true. There are a lot of affordable growing cities where a solid middle income is available, but in Pittsburgh it is a lot harder to attain that lifestyle. That said the good jobs in Pittsburgh are high tech and computers. That has been growing but so few people qualify for those jobs and people aren’t flocking to relocate to Pittsburgh. The other fields recruiting a lot of workers that pay very well are the trades. The region is hurting for blue collar trade workers. Other than that not much is available worth taking. Lots of jobs paying sub 12 dollars an hour. Hospitality and retail make up the fastest growing jobs in the region.

I left in early 2015 because my salary was lousy and after looking for 3 years for something better just in Pittsburgh I gave up and faced reality I had to move to make a good living. A family used to live next to my parents in Robinson township. Both boys are a bit younger than I. The oldest lives in NYC. The younger one lived in that house by himself for 3 years because his parents moved to cranberry and gave him the 300K house in Robinson to live. Well he grew tired of the lousy salaries at Bank of NY Mellon and relocated to philly for a much better job in October. Needless to say that house is now vacant and up for sale.

When we came home for thanksgiving we rode through the south side flats main drag of East Carson Street. We were saddened by the vacant store fronts and rental or for sale signs along the ride. There were a lot of vacant places,more than I can remember in a long time. So with that my gut is yes but I think the decline is worse than estimated. The lack of good paying jobs hurts the region from growing and puts it in decline mode.

There is an economist at Pitt that gives an unbiased opinion of Pittsburgh’s growth and economy. His name is Chris Briem and he has a blog. He is worth looking up for further information. Right now the unemployment rate in Pittsburgh is higher than the national rate. The last time pittsburgh’s Unemployment rate was this much higher than national average was 1986 / 1988 when tens of thousands left the region each year. Again indicators are not good.

Wages absolutely need to rise in Pittsburgh. There is no question about that. A good shot in the arm in the economy here wouldn't hurt anything.

The rest of this is just pure drivel full of anecdotes and "I thinks."

[SteelCityRising]

I hear Columbus has a really nice mall. Two, as a matter of fact.