Wage stagnation in Pittsburgh hits blue-collar, service workers hardest (California: rentals, credit card)

[Copanut]

Definitely see a need for bicycle repairmen in the future, per Bicycle Bill.

[Lost_In_Translation]

Originally Posted by ferraris

I've never heard this term used on a macro level. It makes sense for a personal budget, but not for comparing one person's salary to another's. The location, size, and condition of your housing is a choice. I am not richer than my coworkers because I live in a cheap house, I'm just spending my wages differently than them.

I assume that is talking about inflation of various housing markets. An equivalent $1k apt in another town rose 3% more than Pittsburgh, thus affecting relative wages. If you didn't have to spend the money on housing, you could spent it on something else. I agree that as an absolute measure it doesn't matter, but maybe on a relative scale it does?

[ferraris]

Post-rent comparisons between cities makes sense. But comparing post-rent wages between knowledge-workers and blue collar workers within Pittsburgh doesn't make sense to me.

[Lost_In_Translation]

Originally Posted by ferraris

Post-rent comparisons between cities makes sense. But comparing post-rent wages between knowledge-workers and blue collar workers within Pittsburgh doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe its the wording, but I thought they were comparing city to city not blue-collar to white collar. Sorry, its confusing.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by PghYinzer

Perhaps we should we look into basic incomes for people in certain sets of industries that are no longer needed?

Like buggy-whip makers? I thought the idea was that one type of work replaces another. People have been talking about the evils of "automation" since the 1960s, at least. Probably since the industrial revolution, really. Right now, unemployment is very low; in some states it's at an all time low.

[szug-bot]

Originally Posted by Katarina Witt

Like buggy-whip makers? I thought the idea was that one type of work replaces another. People have been talking about the evils of "automation" since the 1960s, at least. Probably since the industrial revolution, really. Right now, unemployment is very low; in some states it's at an all time low.

You're right. I think what is happening is a residual of what was the once great United States. No more can you fly by the seat of your pants, party as a kid, then finally shape up and make a comfortable life for yourself. Those days are long gone, but the expectations for quality of life are not.

that statement (paraphrased) comes from a older friend who was in his 20s in the 1970s. he notices, and is probably right, that competition and struggle start at a very early age. with good reason - fewer and fewer crumbs of the economic pie.

this parallels what ive said on this forum before...there are too many people having too many kids who are or will be competing for too few decent jobs that are not in high demand or not specific to a technical or natural science field of study.

this is why i am very uncomfortable with the great emphasis on academic sports, especially at early high school age, and for less economically advantaged inner city kids. i think that has been changing, thankfully, with more recognition of scholarly pursuits.

[PghYinzer]

Originally Posted by Katarina Witt

Like buggy-whip makers? I thought the idea was that one type of work replaces another. People have been talking about the evils of "automation" since the 1960s, at least. Probably since the industrial revolution, really. Right now, unemployment is very low; in some states it's at an all time low.

Not that I disagree with what you said, as I feel like people should have some plans for their future and some general understanding of the state of the world and the impacts it could have on those plans, but how many buggy-whip makers were there when we stopped needing buggy-whips? I would imagine there is a greater proportion of workers that are finding themselves without a path forward today than there ever were buggy-whip makers.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by PghYinzer

Not that I disagree with what you said, as I feel like people should have some plans for their future and some general understanding of the state of the world and the impacts it could have on those plans, but how many buggy-whip makers were there when we stopped needing buggy-whips? I would imagine there is a greater proportion of workers that are finding themselves without a path forward today than there ever were buggy-whip makers.

I was just giving an example. "Buggy whips" is a commonly used term for stuff that is obsolete. Only 2% of people farm any more, whereas 100 years ago 27% were farming.
https://www.agclassroom.org/gan/time...rmers_land.htm

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

You're right. I think what is happening is a residual of what was the once great United States. No more can you fly by the seat of your pants, party as a kid, then finally shape up and make a comfortable life for yourself. Those days are long gone, but the expectations for quality of life are not.

that statement (paraphrased) comes from a older friend who was in his 20s in the 1970s. he notices, and is probably right, that competition and struggle start at a very early age. with good reason - fewer and fewer crumbs of the economic pie.

I agree with your friend, that definitely applied to me. Got out of college in the mid-70's during a mild recession. Took a labor job at US Steel in the Monroeville Research Lab starting at 12K with every benefit you can think of. Even got a bonus 120 bucks for taking my vacation in April, Spring Break, Baby!




$12,000.00 in 1974 had the same buying power as $62,709.61 in 2017
Annual inflation over this period was about 3.92%




Try finding a job like that today as a laborer basically just cleaning up after people, not gonna happen. The steel industry is never coming back to what it once was, automation will see to that.

[szug-bot]

Originally Posted by Copanut

...


Try finding a job like that today as a laborer basically just cleaning up after people, not gonna happen. The steel industry is never coming back to what it once was, automation will see to that.

Well, there are other reasons besides automation...other parts of the world caught up, developed formidable middle classes, and have made it economical to have foreign companies invest in their labor markets. Generally speaking.

Automation is our friend, though. So is birth control.