The Pittsburgh Conundrum

[fleetiebelle]

Originally Posted by Ruger357

You are part of the 57.5% percent of the workforce making less than 20 bucks an hour. You don't matter because you arent part of those special interest groups that seem to benefit from developments and public money floating around. But hey you make enough to just buy a house out of skid row and have a kitchen updated last when Richard Nixon was president.

This shows your bias, though. I don't make a huge salary, and I own a home that is not in a bad neighborhood, nor was it in complete shambles. It is possible to live a solid middle class lifestyle in Pittsburgh without living in a slum and eating only ramen. If you are expecting to buy in Sewickley or Peters Township on $40K a year, then sure, you might need more income, but Brookline, Dormont, Brighton Heights and the like are within reach.

You say you're a new college graduate, so you don't have a lot of experience in the adult world and you haven't put down roots yet. I've been working at the same place for a while, to the point where I see that the new hires are making more than I am to meet the market demand. Do I think of getting another job to make more? Sure, but I'd have to move to another city, and I don't see the benefit of uprooting myself from my comfortable lifestyle in Pittsburgh to someplace else where my higher salary could very well be eaten up by increased housing, commuting, food, etc. costs.

[Port Pitt Ash]

Originally Posted by Ruger357

How is the frugal or poor but happy Pittsburgh lifestyle that two posters champion working for you?

Frugal would probably be a better term because it's not that you're poor exactly, but despite not making as much as you could somewhere else your bills are even less.

So say you only clear $30k at your job, but to live in the city maybe you only need $20k. It's that sort of thing. Lots of cities are "poor, but happy" cities. Portland & Seattle used to be these sorts of cities. Minneapolis is. Richmond is. Cleveland is. Buffalo & Upstate NY in a lot of places, and so on. I'd say more cities are geared toward a low-key, affordable life than aren't. It's just that people swarm to these places when they learn that they can either a. move to the cheap, but hip place or b. have a shot at the middle class dream.

As for how it's working out...I'm dept free, student loans paid off, have the option to pick up a rental place (which I declined since I'm not staying in the area), have two robust retirement accounts (granted I got a late start), and more money in the bank than most of my peers and their parents. I want for little and can do as I please. I have 3 used cars (new cars are for suckers) and I've been taking at least one vacation a year since I moved to the south.

On the flip side my brother in Philly makes more than twice what I do, but his COL more than cancels it out and is actually doing worse than I am. I mean he's still taking after my example somewhat and has a bankroll and no longer has his loan payments, but still.

Then you have my friend who's pulling down six figures and if he's still living like he was when we regularly hung out he spends every penny he has.

It's really just a mental shift and anyone can do it assuming you don't have lots of medical problems or a litter of kids you can't afford.

Originally Posted by Ruger357

Here is a hypothetical. So I am a new college grad from Pittsburgh. I put in for a job in Cleveland for 53k a year. I also put in for a similar job in Pittsburgh, no salary posted. If I get offered the Cleveland job first should I wait on the offer from Pittsburgh knowing I have a 57 percent chance of making less than 20 bucks an hour and a 1 in 3 chance of making no more than 15 dollars an hour. What should I do?

It's a toss up. Unless you hate Cleveland you go with the sure thing. Although at the same time you could live in Pittsburgh on a survival type job or any job real as you don't need $20 an hour to have access to just about anything you'd want in that city.

[gladhands]

It might be time to stop feeling the troll.

[Paul2421]

Originally Posted by gladhands

It might be time to stop feeling the troll.

the troll is getting schooled.

[eschaton]

The thing I hate about these inevitable articles is no matter what the article is about, it's BAD NEWS FOR PITTSBURGH. If it's bad news, it's reported uncritically. However, if it's good news, it's the "dark lining for any silver cloud" will be found. Improving property values are a sign of a bubble. East End development is unsustainable. New tech jobs are bad because they will all go to outsiders. If apartment prices rise, it's bad, because it's a sign Pittsburgh's becoming unfavorable, but if they decline slightly, it's also a bad sign, because a healthy city would have continually escalating property values.

I mean, I realize that sometimes different people are making different arguments, but no matter what, at least once a month we have this same song and dance happen.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

What types of concerns? I'm just curious because a lot of my requests / complaints in East Liberty and Highland Park either go unheard or take many many months for some sort of action.

Stuff like the Wilksboro and Davis Ave Bridges, Drug/crime activity, Graffiti removal, and Government officials not attending BHCF meetings.

On several occasions I've gotten a small batch of neighbors together to request infrastructure improvements like drinking fountains, trash cans, bike lanes/markings/signs, park benches, park repairs, etc. and it's all either no response or lip service and then they forget about us. The way the city does the bare minimum for Legion Park is an embarrassment. It only looks decent now because of the BHCF gardeners.

On the positive side I do think the St. John's site is being given a fair amount of attention, progress is just slow because there is not a consensus among residents on what to do about it.

[selltheburgh]

My suggestion for some of these things:

-Bridges / streets etc - have multiple people make a 311 request. Then do it again. Then again. Also file a complaint on twitter to 311 pgh and also at your council person and the mayor. Also have somebody post on Facebook about it, make the post open to public, and tag a few people who you know will also comment and make a stink - all while tagging your council person or a very active community member.

-Drug / crime activity - get in with the zone commander. It also helps to have a detective's cell phone number to text them descriptions, photos, license plates, etc.

-trash cans - tough to get from my experience unless it is a business district.

-bike lanes / markings - try to work directly with bike pittsburgh. they push these things through with the city.

-drinking fountains / park repairs / benches - that might all go through city parks. Have the neighborhood org go directly to the foreman / manager - Department of Public Works | Park Maintenance Divisions

[Ruger357]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The thing I hate about these inevitable articles is no matter what the article is about, it's BAD NEWS FOR PITTSBURGH. If it's bad news, it's reported uncritically. However, if it's good news, it's the "dark lining for any silver cloud" will be found. Improving property values are a sign of a bubble. East End development is unsustainable. New tech jobs are bad because they will all go to outsiders. If apartment prices rise, it's bad, because it's a sign Pittsburgh's becoming unfavorable, but if they decline slightly, it's also a bad sign, because a healthy city would have continually escalating property values.

I mean, I realize that sometimes different people are making different arguments, but no matter what, at least once a month we have this same song and dance happen.

Nothing is perfect. There are pros and cons to both growth and decline. Nobody is on here denying that. IMO the biggest thing holding the region back are its low wages. They just aren't competitive with other cities the same size or smaller. It hurts recruiting and you won't keep young professionals long term to help maintain the region. These are the people you need to have families, repopulate and pay taxes a long time. The region is missing out on these people. It has to be more than just a college region or one to retire to.

My feeling is a lot of people on here are afraid of the changes that come with growth. I feel that way reading the responses on here. Granted it won't make everyone happy. But like I said change is the law of life. If you don't change you end up left behind.

Those afraid of change want the growth but want the new people to conform to current local culture and keep the region looking the same as it always has been. I will tell you if real growth does happen things and people in Pittsburgh won't look the same. You will have new cookie cutter development mixed with old. Tons of old buildings will get razed. That is just how it is. There is no way around it.

I said in one of my first posts here. I'm selfish and I want the region to decline or stay status quo for my benefit downt the road if I choose to retire early. But I am mindful my personal greed is hurting others. There are a lot of people struggling there and lots of places on life support. If you think people are happy being poor and living there or they are living a simple life think again. Look at the election results for the region for the answer. They speak for themselves.

[Ruger357]

This is a good article I saw posted on Chris Briem's blog.. while the article focuses on population losses the last two paragraphs hit the nail on the head. Invest in people and jobs... that holds true for the entire metro and mon Valley.

https://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsbu...media=AMP+HTML

Pittsburgh is at the doorstep of the Midwest. Should we refer to Pittsburgh as Midwest. Could it help?

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/08/02/...their-mba.html

[Ruger357]

Originally Posted by fleetiebelle

This shows your bias, though. I don't make a huge salary, and I own a home that is not in a bad neighborhood, nor was it in complete shambles. It is possible to live a solid middle class lifestyle in Pittsburgh without living in a slum and eating only ramen. If you are expecting to buy in Sewickley or Peters Township on $40K a year, then sure, you might need more income, but Brookline, Dormont, Brighton Heights and the like are within reach.

You say you're a new college graduate, so you don't have a lot of experience in the adult world and you haven't put down roots yet. I've been working at the same place for a while, to the point where I see that the new hires are making more than I am to meet the market demand. Do I think of getting another job to make more? Sure, but I'd have to move to another city, and I don't see the benefit of uprooting myself from my comfortable lifestyle in Pittsburgh to someplace else where my higher salary could very well be eaten up by increased housing, commuting, food, etc. costs.

You are showing you bias as well though. Pittsburgh is not the cheapest city around either. You also reinforce my wage stagnation argument. You would have to move if you wanted to advance or make more than 20 bucks an hour.

The wages need boosted badly in the burgh. Employers need to stop being cheap and act like people will take anything to live in Pittsburgh. And 40K a year isn't bad for a recent college grad, but it's bad if you have been out of school for a while or have 5 years working experience.