Working Class can’t afford the American Dream in Pittsburgh (McKeesport: neighborhood, buying)

[Lost_In_Translation]

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

There were 2 reasons the middle class fared well from 1945 to about 1975. First, post WWII, the rest of the industrial world was flattened, leaving no foreign competition for American goods. Second, there was very little immigration pushing down wages.

Labor is a commodity that gains and loses value based on supply and demand. Artificially raising wages will just fuel price inflation. It's futile.

Looking forward to some Carter era inflation.

[gladhands]

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

There were 2 reasons the middle class fared well from 1945 to about 1975. First, post WWII, the rest of the industrial world was flattened, leaving no foreign competition for American goods. Second, there was very little immigration pushing down wages.

Labor is a commodity that gains and loses value based on supply and demand. Artificially raising wages will just fuel price inflation. It's futile.

That's a cute little xenophobic take. Immigration didn't push down wages. The combination of unionbusting and offshoring brought wages down.

[RogersParkTransplant]

Originally Posted by gladhands

Immigration didn't push down wages. The combination of unionbusting and offshoring brought wages down.

Agree completely. And while I suppose the damage done to Europe and Japan during WWII may have helped American manufacturing somewhat, that's not the real reason large-scale employers chose to pay decent wages rather than just pocketing the difference (as is happening now). Meanwhile global war isn't really a viable path towards changing the unsustainable economic gap between the richest and the poorest in this nation.

We all know automation is going to keep taking jobs away from the working class too. At some point we have to start seeing that when the giant employers like Wal-Mart refuse to pay a livable wage to millions of workers, it's all of us having to make up the difference as we deal with poverty all around us. Right now, for every ten dollars of profit they make, the shareholders are taking nine and leaving the rest of us to point fingers about whether an immigrant has stolen the tenth. Any worker who earns a wage gives it back to the economy: immigrant or not, they still have to buy food, pay the rent or mortgage, shop for school clothes for their kids, and pay taxes on all of it too. The working class immigrants are not the ones hiding money in offshore accounts, nor are they the ones causing so many good jobs to be outsourced to developing nations.

[sealie]

Originally Posted by gladhands

That's a cute little xenophobic take. Immigration didn't push down wages. The combination of unionbusting and offshoring brought wages down.

And automation.

But complaining that the tech jobs pay a lot more than low-skill clerical isn't any kind of solution either. I remember Copanut mentioned seeing the beginning of the end of Steel, and getting out. You have to be able to read the writing on the wall and you have to see opportunities and chase them. I think a lot of people are trainable, but you can't teach hustle or self preservation.

[RogersParkTransplant]

Originally Posted by sealie

And automation.

But complaining that the tech jobs pay a lot more than low-skill clerical isn't any kind of solution either. I remember Copanut mentioned seeing the beginning of the end of Steel, and getting out. You have to be able to read the writing on the wall and you have to see opportunities and chase them. I think a lot of people are trainable, but you can't teach hustle or self preservation.

I agree with this in theory. It's just that when we don't have any safety net at all -- when higher education is becoming more expensive all the time, when people can't fall back on a public health care option, when parental leave and childcare are out of reach for most potential workers -- we have to see that many people are going to be left stranded. I get that the people with hustle deserve more than the people without, but how much more? I'm fine with working class jobs leading to working class lifestyles; I'm not fine with them leading to abject poverty. We are teetering on that edge now.

[Paul2421]

Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant

Agree completely. And while I suppose the damage done to Europe and Japan during WWII may have helped American manufacturing somewhat, that's not the real reason large-scale employers chose to pay decent wages rather than just pocketing the difference (as is happening now). Meanwhile global war isn't really a viable path towards changing the unsustainable economic gap between the richest and the poorest in this nation.

We all know automation is going to keep taking jobs away from the working class too. At some point we have to start seeing that when the giant employers like Wal-Mart refuse to pay a livable wage to millions of workers, it's all of us having to make up the difference as we deal with poverty all around us. Right now, for every ten dollars of profit they make, the shareholders are taking nine and leaving the rest of us to point fingers about whether an immigrant has stolen the tenth. Any worker who earns a wage gives it back to the economy: immigrant or not, they still have to buy food, pay the rent or mortgage, shop for school clothes for their kids, and pay taxes on all of it too. The working class immigrants are not the ones hiding money in offshore accounts, nor are they the ones causing so many good jobs to be outsourced to developing nations.

and yet we are clamoring over bringing amazon to the city....

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by sealie

And automation.

But complaining that the tech jobs pay a lot more than low-skill clerical isn't any kind of solution either. I remember Copanut mentioned seeing the beginning of the end of Steel, and getting out. You have to be able to read the writing on the wall and you have to see opportunities and chase them. I think a lot of people are trainable, but you can't teach hustle or self preservation.

Funny you should mention that. My husband just retired from a 35 year career in IT; says he doesn't know what he'd do if he were going into the job market today.

[prnlvsxy]

Originally Posted by Katarina Witt

Funny you should mention that. My husband just retired from a 35 year career in IT; says he doesn't know what he'd do if he were going into the job market today.

I'm baffled why more people don't look at the trades. You don't need to spend hundreds of thousands on college. Vo Tech school to learn plumbing, electrical, mechanic, etc. and you can always find work and/or start your own business. College isn't' the be-all end-all to prosperity.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by prnlvsxy

I'm baffled why more people don't look at the trades. You don't need to spend hundreds of thousands on college. Vo Tech school to learn plumbing, electrical, mechanic, etc. and you can always find work and/or start your own business. College isn't' the be-all end-all to prosperity.

Cough, cough! He has a PhD in physics. He made a lot more than a plumber.
http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm
Income goes up and unemployment down as education level goes up.

[guy2073]

Originally Posted by prnlvsxy

I'm baffled why more people don't look at the trades. You don't need to spend hundreds of thousands on college. Vo Tech school to learn plumbing, electrical, mechanic, etc. and you can always find work and/or start your own business. College isn't' the be-all end-all to prosperity.

Trade schools in this area are not needed, I hire people and have them apprentice under me or my foreman. They get paid well and they learn on the job. Jobs are plentiful and you won't have student debt.