Does anyone know how difficult is it to get into Pitt for grad school? (student loan, find a job)

[zip95]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I am now an attorney, and everywhere I have studied or worked there have been librarians who were invaluable aids to doing legal research. Basically, legal librarians tend to know the most efficient ways to get whatever you need, and also may be able to suggest resources that would be helpful that you wouldn't know to look for. And in some cases, they will just do the research for you and give you the answer. And while online search tools certainly have allowed lawyers to do many things from the convenience of their own offices, in many cases it remains true that calling or e-mailing the librarian and asking for a bit of help will speed up that process as well..

Ahhh, law librarians....that might make sense.

I was starting to completely doubt the practicallity of the field (that's why I was going to stop talking). As some one who's written plenty of journal-articles, I can attest to the fact that no serious academic researcher would need to consult a librarian on where to find information (even before the internet)...That notion is laughable. So in the back of my mind I was thinking, at best, librarians can only be useful for undergraduate book reports or hobby research.....and with the proliferation of the internet, even that claim is dubious.

The flaw in my thinking was to forget that there are many non-professional researchers who, never-the-less, still need access to detailed information....law being a perfect example....I would imagine journalism, or various medical discliplines could also qualify. Thanks for the enlightenment BrianTH.

BTW, that's gotta be a tough job market.

[BrianTH]

zip95,

Indeed, when I was a Philosophy grad student, I'm not sure I ever used the services of a librarian. But lawyers do all the time. And I think that is true in part because it makes sense for people like lawyers to "outsource" some of their research, since their time also has to be spent on other tasks. But if research is basically your whole job (as it was when I was a grad student, holding aside teaching), then you are unlikely to outsource your research tasks. And as you point out, lots of people will probably fall into roughly the same situation as lawyers.

[dana_in_'sylvania]

For those of you who think that the internet will make librarianship obsolete, I must ask: did you not visit a public library as a child? Surely, there's no technology that could conduct a storytime, unless you'd rather have robots read, sing songs, do finger plays and recite nursery rhymes to the little ones. And, what about the kids who love coming to the library to pick out their favorite book? Google Books does not allow Suzy or Johnny to pick out a sticker at the circulation desk and walk away smiling and carrying a stack of favorite books.

[likepgh]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

zip95,

Indeed, when I was a Philosophy grad student, I'm not sure I ever used the services of a librarian.

Brian (and this goes for Zip too):

You might have not personally consulted a librarian in doing your own academic research, but you certainly used the services of a librarian--actually many librarians. Someone had to order the books and journals you used in your research. Someone else had to catalog them. Others work with the bibliographic databases that you probably used to find your materials. And lots of people do consult librarians directly in their academic research: when historians or others do archival research, for example, they often consult with rare book librarians and archivists about holdings. Librarians are also supervising digitization projects (of which there are hundreds--or perhaps thousands--internationally beyond Google). I also find it hard to believe that neither of you have ever needed a book or journal article that needed to be obtained by interlibrary loan. While the person processing your request (at both ends) may well be a work-study student, librarians design and supervise the systems that work to make ILL efficient.
In many disciplines, faculty also work with librarians, usually bibliographers, in their fields, to build collections for research and teaching.

[BrianTH]

likepgh,

Sorry if I was unclear: I only meant I'm not sure I ever directly consulted a librarian, not that I didn't benefit in any way from the services of librarian.

[likepgh]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

likepgh,

Sorry if I was unclear: I only meant I'm not sure I ever directly consulted a librarian, not that I didn't benefit in any way from the services of librarian.

Exactly. But your wording implied support for zip95's false notion that librarians somehow only serve time-pressed professionals, inexperienced undergraduates, or those engaged in "hobby" research but not "serious academic researchers." (Not that there is anything wrong in serving those first three groups as well.)

(I should add, since I agree with about 95% of what you write on this forum and think you are among the most level-headed contributors, I did regret having to direct a critical comment in your direction.)

And no, everyone, I'm not a librarian. Just an academic very grateful to the librarians who make it possible for me to do my work.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by likepgh

Exactly. But your wording implied support for zip95's false notion that librarians somehow only serve time-pressed professionals, inexperienced undergraduates, or those engaged in "hobby" research but not "serious academic researchers." (Not that there is anything wrong in serving those first three groups as well.)

Looking back, I can see how what I wrote could be interpreted in that way, and I certainly don't mind having it pointed out that interpreted in such a way, I would be quite wrong.

Again just to clarify, I meant to only be agreeing with the proposition that academics tend not to directly consult with librarians as much as other professionals with research needs. But I did not intend to agree or otherwise imply that means academics do not benefit from the services of librarians in many other ways.

[zip95]

Originally Posted by likepgh

Brian (and this goes for Zip too):

You might have not personally consulted a librarian in doing your own academic research, but you certainly used the services of a librarian--actually many librarians. Someone had to order the books and journals you used in your research. Someone else had to catalog them. Others work with the bibliographic databases that you probably used to find your materials. And lots of people do consult librarians directly in their academic research: when historians or others do archival research, for example, they often consult with rare book librarians and archivists about holdings. Librarians are also supervising digitization projects (of which there are hundreds--or perhaps thousands--internationally beyond Google). I also find it hard to believe that neither of you have ever needed a book or journal article that needed to be obtained by interlibrary loan. While the person processing your request (at both ends) may well be a work-study student, librarians design and supervise the systems that work to make ILL efficient.
In many disciplines, faculty also work with librarians, usually bibliographers, in their fields, to build collections for research and teaching.

You just gave many excellent job descriptions for student workers and IT professionals ..."Someone had to order the books and journals you used in your research. Someone else had to catalog them."...Huh???

I read your post and now I'm thinking...Wow, I bet there are less than 20 Library Science jobs available in this entire region (and that number is likely high).

The reality is that things like modernizing interlibrary loan procedures or digitization projects create more demand for software developers and IT workers than for library science workers. And working with historians and bibliographers......that's like saying I design spear warmers for whale hunters....not a growth industry.

[likepgh]

Originally Posted by zip95

You just gave many excellent job descriptions for student workers and IT professionals ..."Someone had to order the books and journals you used in your research. Someone else had to catalog them."...Huh???

I read your post and now I'm thinking...Wow, I bet there are less than 20 Library Science jobs available in this entire region (and that number is likely high).

The reality is that things like modernizing interlibrary loan procedures or digitization projects create more demand for software developers and IT workers than for library science workers. And working with historians and bibliographers......that's like saying I design spear warmers for whale hunters....not a growth industry.

Sorry, I think you misunderstood me. When I said, "order the books and journals," I was referring to collection development, not the actual ordering process. Collection development involves assessing the needs of the users of the library, assessing the resources available, working with the budget available, and trying to come up with a happy medium. That's a professional job and requires some training. (There's a school of thought that says one doesn't need an MLS to be able to do that, especially if one has training in the subject area of the collection, but that's one thing that library science programs train people to do. It may be similar to the debate over whether it's better for high school English teachers to have a Master's of Ed or an MA in English with some Ed courses.)


Cataloging, by the way, is a technical field and catalogers have a lot of training. You try picking up a book and assessing where it should go in the Library of Congress classification. (And don't tell me that the information is on the copyright page--a cataloger had to do some work so that the press could put it on the copyright page.)

The border between librarianship and IT work gets fuzzier all the time. At this point, most library schools are now emphasizing "library and information science" and many librarians have an awful lot of IT training. As time goes on, we may even begin to think of librarians as a type of IT professional.

I thought you wanted to understand what library science is and what librarians do (even for the "serious academic researcher" like yourself). If we're just talking about the job market for librarians, you might be right (although fewer than 20 sounds low); other posts in this thread have suggested a tight job market in Pittsburgh, at least.

As for whale hunting, I'll return your "huh?": do you think that historical research is obsolete? Or that historians who use books and archival materials are using an obsolete technology?

I once heard someone who worked as an editor at an academic press say that he felt like he worked in the buggy whip industry, circa 1905. But that's a comment about future production of books as physical objects. That's not a comment about the future use of existing books and other texts in material form. The former may be going out the door (although not as fast as people have thought), but the latter will still be going strong for a good while.

[robgratz]

Originally Posted by right-here-i-say

Walk up for your interview and state you have your credit card ready to be charged. They will accept you.

Im only 16, I live in the subs out side of Pittsburgh, I love Pitt and have always wanted to go there for med-school and I know it is a great school and very hard to get into for a fact considering my mother and father both went there and my dad currently works there, don't ever insult this amazing school by saying something that implies that you can buy your way into the school! They only accept the top 50% of applicants, but if you take away the applicants for the off-campus it goes to 29% then if you take away transfers, they only accept the top 19% so please don't talk about what you don't know!!!