Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Perhaps, but the fact is, there was a lot of company housing in Pittsburgh at one time. Most of the steelworkers rented.
Sure. I was just pointing out that in the case of Painter's Row, the fact that it was company housing doesn't mean that it was built by the company, although in fact that was the case in Aliquippa.
Quote:
And to refer to downtown Aliquippa as "suburban" is not correct, to put it mildly.
Well, the link you supplied has a picture of the residential development put up by the steel company in Aliquippa, and people can judge for themselves if it is indeed a precursor to modern subdivisions. I might note the reason people often say that company towns were a precursor to modern subdivisions is that both were often built according to a master plan. See here for someone else making that point:
"A different type of company town has appeared in the U.S. since the 1960s, where real estate companies started developing uninhabited tracts of unincorporated lands into huge master-planned communities."
Quote:
The "robber barons" were not living in row houses; they were living in the larger, single family homes in Squirrel Hill, Shadyside, Sewickley, etc. This has been documented in some of the links I have posted.
Right, and I acknowledged that in my prior post. I was just pointing out that often the same craftsman who built rowhouses ended up working on the mansions as well. As an aside, though, at one point there were rowhouse mansions in Allegheny, with one stretch actually called "Millionaire's Row" (most were torn down, but there are a few left in Allegheny West today). But the "robber barons" then did indeed move out East or Upriver as Pittsburgh was expanding, and that is when many of the mansions you are referencing were built. See here:
Welcome to Historic Allegheny West (http://www.alleghenywest.info/about.html - broken link)
"Until the First World War, Allegheny West was the place for Pittsburgh's elite. But everything changes and in the years between the wars, the leading families left their big homes and moved north to Sewickley or east to Squirrel Hill and Shadyside."
Quote:
And let me tell you how much energy efficient windows cost. They could easily cost more than the value of some of those houses. We put in new windows just last year. Plus, these houses need more than roof insulation. Yes, they have common walls, but they have a front and a back as well. My childhood home was one of these brick houses with no insulation. My dad tried a lot of things, but nothing worked very well (at least not as well as he thought it would, and perhaps not as well as the salesman told him it would).
Well, we also own a brick home (detached, not row), and we replaced some of the windows and added storm windows and did some repointing (the roof insulation had been done by a prior owner and was fine). So, I guess we could trade anecdotes, but I am not sure what that would prove. The bottomline is that double-brick construction has a decent instrinsic R-value and a slow thermal response, and rowhouses obviously have a huge instrinsic advantage over detached homes when it comes to energy efficiency. Of course, any bill for windows and roof insulation will also be relatively low for rowhouses.
But it probably is worth noting that if you bought a new-built rowhouse that was properly constructed and insulated, it may well be more energy-efficient than a historic brick rowhouse even after all the reasonable work on the latter has been done. In that sense, energy-efficiency certainly isn't something that only historic homes can have, and in general there is no doubt that modern technology can be used to improve energy efficiency.
Certainly no one likes such surprises. But having been through the process myself, I am not sure it is fair to say my expressions are "overenthusiastic", as they simply reflect the level of enthusiasm I (and some other people) genuinely feel, despite all the tradeoffs involved.
That said, I'm not trying to imply we should sweep the tradeoffs under the rug (so to speak). I just think it is a bit odd to judge another person's enthusiasm level.
Huh? There is nothing odd about reading and forming opinions about postings here. There would not be any discussion here if people didn't judge and respond to other people's posts.
Huh? There is nothing odd about reading and forming opinions about postings here. There would not be any discussion here if people didn't judge and respond to other people's posts.
Yes, a forum is about opinions but I believe what he meant was why are people so bothered by someone's enthusiasm that they feel they must squash it. My family is moving to Pittsburgh in the summer and the main thing that was an initial draw was the abundancy of gourgeous old houses and there are plenty of people out there that feel, like we do, that the "problems" associated with old houses is worth the tradeoff for the charm and character. I would think that all the folks that put down on PGH for its lack of young and open minded people would encourage the enthusiasm because it is exactlt that demographic that will be drawn there by that excitement!
Yes, a forum is about opinions but I believe what he meant was why are people so bothered by someone's enthusiasm that they feel they must squash it. ---- I would think that all the folks that put down on PGH for its lack of young and open minded people would encourage the enthusiasm because it is exactlt that demographic that will be drawn there by that excitement!
Very well put, my friend!.... This dynamic is not restricted to city-data, as well.... most websites have their "trolls" who have nothing but negative things to say, and even then, they offer no solutions, only complaints.
I liken it to people not voting in an election, and then bitchin' about the winning candidate for the next 4-8 years.... they have no ground to stand on.
I have YET to find The Utopian City of Valhalla, where the streets are paved with gold and wine flows from the sewers and everyone is locked in a loving embrace.... it simply doesn't exist, on THIS planet, yet... but that said, I also see Pittsburgh as being in an incredible place right now, as regards affordable housing, lack of "severe" city problems, and potential for regrowth and rebirth as much more than a Regional Hub city.
As I said before in this thread, if the worst people can say is that the liquor laws are antiquated and the housing stock is a bit older.... hell, I dare them to spend a week here in the Bronx with me before I move out there, and see what REAL "City Issues" are like!!!!
Pittsburgh is the 16th most-mentioned city on City-Data, and with good reason.... there's a buzz growing about this place.... and even the naysayers can't quell that buzz, because the facts and figures will disprove them, every time!!!
I find I must disagree that scrapp is a troll. Perhaps it's because I tend to agree with him more than not, but I think it is OK to state that renovating an old house takes a lot of time and money, more than one anticipated at the beginning. You will actually read same in many articles and books about remodeling. I would not judge scrapp until you have "walked the walk".
I find I must disagree that scrapp is a troll. Perhaps it's because I tend to agree with him more than not, but I think it is OK to state that renovating an old house takes a lot of time and money, more than one anticipated at the beginning. You will actually read same in many articles and books about remodeling. I would not judge scrapp until you have "walked the walk".
Oh, I was certaily NOT accusing any one poster was a "troll", but was speaking more in general terms... looking back on the thread, there were a few who were slagging the CITY itself, and not just the housing....
Actually, the thread was meant more about the city as well, rather than an expanded diatribe about housing, although that is certainly a part OF the overall equation.
Oh, I was certaily NOT accusing any one poster was a "troll", but was speaking more in general terms... looking back on the thread, there were a few who were slagging the CITY itself, and not just the housing....
Actually, the thread was meant more about the city as well, rather than an expanded diatribe about housing, although that is certainly a part OF the overall equation.
Well, that happens on all the forums, too. People on the Pittsburgh forum are way more sensitive to this than people on the Denver forum, I'll tell you that! One of the big threads on Denver right now is "Give me 10 reasons not to move to Denver". I can't imagine a thread like that flying here.
Sorry you think the housing thing turned into a diatribe. I was trying to make a point that the row houses aren't custom homes. I may have gotten a bit carried away, but so did some others.
Well, that happens on all the forums, too. People on the Pittsburgh forum are way more sensitive to this than people on the Denver forum, I'll tell you that! One of the big threads on Denver right now is "Give me 10 reasons not to move to Denver". I can't imagine a thread like that flying here.
Sorry you think the housing thing turned into a diatribe. I was trying to make a point that the row houses aren't custom homes. I may have gotten a bit carried away, but so did some others.
No, no - - don't apologize; it's all good... like I said, it IS one of the main selling points / drawbacks to potential residents.... very valid, indeed... and perhaps, there's no "meeting in the middle" on that aspect, because it is such an individual preference factor...
Me, I'm moving into an older house (1931) which has had some updates, but needs several more... I'm all up for it, knowing full well I'm opening up a can o' worms!!!...... But once that can is opened, cooked, and served up later on, the results will be more than worth the efforts and investments I make in 'em....
Even a row house CAN be "customized" and turned into a unique living space, if you take time to really look at your options...
With housing prices low right now, one can be assured they WILL rise again, in the future... any improvements made now can only bring value, if you hold onto the property long enough.
Last edited by By~Tor; 03-27-2008 at 08:12 AM..
Reason: Additional Info Pertinent to Topic
Yes, a forum is about opinions but I believe what he meant was why are people so bothered by someone's enthusiasm that they feel they must squash it. My family is moving to Pittsburgh in the summer and the main thing that was an initial draw was the abundancy of gourgeous old houses and there are plenty of people out there that feel, like we do, that the "problems" associated with old houses is worth the tradeoff for the charm and character.
Owning and caring for a home (any home) isn't something you are born knowing how to do. How can you evaluate the tradeoffs (both the pros and cons) if only one side is presented? Buying a house is a major life decision and it is important to go into with your eyes open. And even then you'll get surprises... I think it is helpful to learn about other people's surprises/experiences because it can help you make a better decision in your own case. That is why I've taken the time to post here about my real-life experiences with houses and Allegheny County property tax assessments.
Quote:
I would think that all the folks that put down on PGH for its lack of young and open minded people would encourage the enthusiasm because it is exactlt that demographic that will be drawn there by that excitement!
I don't think this applies to me (since I haven't said anything about a lack of young/open minded people), but I will say that I believe that the most important way to draw these types of people is with good jobs. Without the jobs, the housing doesn't matter. In fact the whole reason I moved to Pittsburgh is because of the awesome job I got here (I am a computer engineer w/PhD).
No, no - - don't apologize; it's all good... like I said, it IS one of the main selling points / drawbacks to potential residents.... very valid, indeed... and perhaps, there's no "meeting in the middle" on that aspect, because it is such an individual preference factor...
Me, I'm moving into an older house (1931) which has had some updates, but needs several more... I'm all up for it, knowing full well I'm opening up a can o' worms!!!...... But once that can is opened, cooked, and served up later on, the results will be more than worth the efforts and investments I make in 'em....
Even a row house CAN be "customized" and turned into a unique living space, if you take time to really look at your options... Yes, it can. But it wasn't built that way.
With housing prices low right now, one can be assured they WILL rise again, in the future... any improvements made now can only bring value, if you hold onto the property long enough.
According to 'everyone' on this board, Pittsburgh's housing prices are very stable. I will give this example from my own life: My parents bought a house (This Old House) in Beaver Falls in 1956 for $18K. This was a time when things were going great guns in the steel industry and BF was a booming place, BTW. 40 years later, in 1996, we sold the house for my mom for $76K. This is not a huge appreciation in 40 yrs. DH and I have owned our house for 19 yrs and it has appreciated almost that much in half the time. So I guess I'm saying, don't put in your upgrades thinking that you're going to make a lot of money on them. Do it because you want to do it. Some people value old houses so much (this is true here as well as in Pgh) that they don't care if they've been updated. There is not always that much of a price differential.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
