Neighborhood of the week: South Oakland (Pittsburgh, Lebanon: real estate, apartments, for rent)

[eschaton]

Apologies about the lateness of my thread this week, but a car accident and some other factors got in the way of timely posting. Suburb of the week to follow tomorrow - I can't do Mt. Lebanon justice tonight.

Regardless, this thread will consider South Oakland as defined by the city - that is to say, Oakland south of Boulevard of the Allies. This is distinct from the colloquial understanding of South Oakland, which is roughly all of Oakland south of Forbes, often used interchangeably with the "undergrad Pitt ghetto" portions of Oakland. Most of that region is actually part of what the city calls Central Oakland, and has thus been covered as a neighborhood in an earlier thread.

Like Oakland as a whole, South Oakland was a relatively thinly settled area until relatively late in the 19th century. Early development centered along the riverfront, where there were several small mills, with scattered houses (mostly frame) on the hills above. By 1890 some of Lawn Street and the Bates Street corridor were mostly built out (the majority of these houses have since been lost to time). But just twenty years after that time the area was almost completely built out - largely with brick structures, a mixture of freestanding homes, rowhouses, and smaller apartment buildings. The quick building boom in South Oakland mirrored what was seen in other, more central portions of Oakland over the same period. A handful of areas were not built out until the 1920s, and the neighborhood even had two fairly sizable mid-to-late 20th century infill projects as major institutions (an old mill and a school) were demolished.

Today South Oakland is something of a forgotten corner of Greater Oakland - so forgotten that, as I noted, people tend to lump it in with Central Oakland although its vibe is a bit different. Although there are an increasing number of students in this area, it is not quite as heavily student dominated, with roughly a 50/50 split between young adults and everyone else (basically identical to Shadyside). This relatively low levels of students have been kept in part due to zoning, which precludes the chopping up of houses for apartments. In recent years Peduto has worked to crack down on student renting in this area further by beginning to enforce rules limiting the amount of unrelated persons who can rent a house as well. The non-student population is to a significant degree still working-class white (especially Italian) holdovers from "old Oakland," although there is also a small but notable black community in the eastern portions of South Oakland.

South Oakland has several different sub-neighborhoods. The westernmost portion is often called Oakcliffe, and is a more brick, urban, and rowhouse-dominated area. The Bates Street corridor is a weird semi-blighted micro-neighborhood, with some amazingly backwoodsy sections. The easternmost part of the neighborhood does not have a particular name that I'm aware of, and is much more streetcar suburban in places. The far southern portions of Oakland are now dominated by the Pittsburgh Technology Center, a decidedly 20th century style office-park development which has just recently began to diversify with a new hotel under construction (a planned apartment project was shelved by Walnut Capital to focus on other areas).

Like many areas of Oakland where locals still remain, there is significant tension between these holdouts and students, and considerable NIMBY based opposition to projects which are seen as potentially further decreasing quality of life through making parking scarce and increasing through-neighborhood traffic. A plan to replace this hulking abandoned building (which used to be an auto showroom, IIRC) with a new apartment building was defeated, with a smaller plan to rehab the existing building for office space now tentatively going forward. Similarly, an ambitious project to redo the entire Bates corridor (demolishing all of the buildings, widening the road, and building a new multi-modal garage on the hillside) seems to have been defeated as well. There are small infill projects, like new houses on Frazier Street, which have gone forward in recent years. I've been hearing about plans to fill in the many vacant lots in Oaklcliffe on Lawn Street as well, but nothing has gone forward yet.

On the whole, however, I expect that South Oakland will remain a mostly forgotten corner of Pittsburgh for the near future. There are two reasons for this. One is that the real estate turnover there is limited, and outside of the more modern Holmes Place condos, very dominated by cash buyer student slumlords (despite all of the ways the city tries to make it difficult). More importantly though is what the neighborhood lacks - walkability. South Oakland has no real business district, being almost entirely a residential area. Boulevard of the Allies is somewhat mixed use, but the mix is largely medical offices and auto-related businesses. Worse still, it's not a pleasant street to cross on foot due to its width and high speeds. Due to these factors, I expect that while it might theoretically hold some appeal to younger non-student professionals who work in the core of Oakland, it's always going to be a more marginal area in terms of desirability - except of course for Pitt students who can't afford to rent a house a 10-minute walk from campus, and so settle for renting a house a 20-minute walk from campus instead.

[Copanut]

Let's see, if I'm coming up Bates Street to Allies Blvd, is everything to the left considered South Oakland? If so, I worked in that area in the late 70's and the late 80's. The vacant building was a car dealership, can't recall what brand. Next to it was a pretty good deli, long gone. The Sunoco was a Gulf station and pretty run down. Where the UPMC bldg. and parking lot was a large Isaly's, I think it was a major distribution point. Had a pretty regular lunch crowd. Not a bad area, just got hit with decline when the mills started to fold.

[Uptown kid]

The alleged former home neighborhood of Dan Marino.

3200 Ward Street/Juliet Street, Frazier Street/Orpwood Street and the "Courts" Dawson Ct/Oakland Court are all that's left of "The Bottoms" South Oakland I used to know. I have more homies in Oakcliffe than "the Bottoms" now (90's known as "OakTown" changed to "Bottoms" in 2000's).

I used to know someone who lived in that (off of Bates Street) micro-neighborhood, they liked it.

[selltheburgh]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Let's see, if I'm coming up Bates Street to Allies Blvd, is everything to the left considered South Oakland? If so, I worked in that area in the late 70's and the late 80's. The vacant building was a car dealership, can't recall what brand. Next to it was a pretty good deli, long gone. The Sunoco was a Gulf station and pretty run down. Where the UPMC bldg. and parking lot was a large Isaly's, I think it was a major distribution point. Had a pretty regular lunch crowd. Not a bad area, just got hit with decline when the mills started to fold.

South Oakland is basically south of forbes. The post office, Mad Mex, Bates St, Semple St, Blvd of the Allies, Magee women's hospital, etc

Oakland was its own world in the 90s and 2000s. I'm sure it probably still is, but I've heard rents are very high. I lived in a 6 BR house with 5-7 people and we paid about $115 each per month.

[Twenty Years in the Burgh]

I lived in South Oakland during my first year in Pittsburgh in a pocket neighborhood behind the Gulf Station (Joe Hammer Square). A two bedroom apartment was four hundred dollars, my portion of which was easily paid by working under the table at a combination laundromat/pizza shop on Semple Street. I used to shop at the Dirty Bird on Forbes and Merante's Market--the latter of which had great sandwiches. Good times.

[Copanut]

I forgot about Merante's, good place for a sandwich. I remember a shoe shop near there as well. Nice older gentleman ran it, his wife brought his lunch everyday.

[svband76]

South Oakland was the home of Babe Ruth's last home run (714) in 1935 ...

[Copanut]

Is Larry and Carol's still open? Great greasy spoon.

[jay5835]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Is Larry and Carol's still open? Great greasy spoon.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Copanut again."

Thanks, Copa. I remember it, too, from way back when I lived on Dawson Street. Just for kicks, I placed an order today. I'll let you know how it is.

Larry & Carol`s Pizza Restaurant | Pittsburgh | 15213 | Order Pizza Online Delivery