White Silence on the Forum with: Pittsburgh's Unsolved Black Youth Violence... Maybe for the better? (Penn Hills: 2014, renting)

[UKyank]

I report or do something about even the smallest crime in my neighborhood so I can say I’m doing my part as much as I can to keep where I live safe.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

her generation will have a changed perspective and likely be whats known as an "ally" (a concept so few on the forum and abroad know about), its not easy, but it's an unique perspective.

Maybe, or maybe if as she gets older and is singled out and picked on just for being white, she might have scares and anger to deal with later in life. Being in grade school is one thing. Middle/high is another.

As someone that went to an almost all white school, I can tell you that the black students didn't get picked on at all because they were black. I was friends with them all. I was not met with the same situation when I was the only white person in a situation. I was singled out and attacked for being white. Sorry, but that is my personal experience and it is what it is. I can't go back and change it.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

Very valid contribution, this where the real life conversation starts. By the time your daughter reaches 17 or 21 she will likely know or have been aquatint with someone affected by youth violence herself. Even if your switch schools are the "Whiteness" balances out... You're generation and her generation will have a changed perspective and likely be whats known as an "ally" (a concept so few on the forum and abroad know about), its not easy, but it's an unique perspective.

Right now there are many White, Asian, middle class/upper class African Americans in Pittsburgh/across the nation who are not directly affected by what's going on in the streets, but are close enough to witness/work with it to see what human experience side occurs.... Those who side with equity and against racism/bigotry are allies.

Yeah. A lot of people mock the term "white privilege" and/or misinterpret it, but it's basically a simple concept. White people in our culture have a choice whether or not they want to live their lives in such a way that they ignore the issues that still affect significant portions of the black community (not just gang violence and murder, but discrimination, disparate police treatment, etc). Black people do not have such a choice. Even if they moved to some lily-white suburb which was safe and somehow accepting, they will still have old acquaintances and family members touched by this. It would form part of the cultural backdrop of their life. The privilege of being white is the privilege of being able to look away.

[Uptown kid]

Originally Posted by gg

Here is the answer from someone that can speak about it without the Wendy Bell effect.

A grass roots effort. That sounds like what I always said that should be done, but was met with nothing positive, because I am not "grass roots".

https://newpittsburghcourieronline.c...mmunity-video/

Great video and I don't disagree with the Wendy Bell effect, Ferguson Effect, the question still remains what's next.
Black on Black exist. Don't forget White on White exist too. In recent weeks there were lower class White on White shootings in Washington and Uniontown covered by the news... outside of Allegheny County I don't know too much or have much to say except that the clearance rate is still higher. Which does indeed lead to Blacks needing to do more themselves. Police also have to prove trust worthy many who've cooperate get killed by gang members and there's no protection unless there's grand jury cases. Some prosecutors, attorneys who work for the gang members and certain task force police officers have even given up names in the past.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

Great video and I don't disagree with the Wendy Bell effect, Ferguson Effect, the question still remains what's next.
Black on Black exist. White on White exist to in recent week there were lower class White on White shootings in Washington and Uniontown covered by the news... outside of Allegheny County I don't know too much or have much to say except that the clearance rate is still higher. Which does lead to Blacks needing to do more. Police also have to prove trust worthy many who've cooperate get killed by gang members and there's no protection unless there's grand jury cases. Some prosecutors, attorneies who work for gang members and police have even given up names in the past.

Step 1 should be to not let your kids join a f*cking gang.

More serious though, a lot of the issues can only be solved within the community. So long as snitching, joining a gang, & a general near acceptance of a gun culture & drug dealing as a vocation continues in the community nothing will improve in this year areas. Plenty of economically depressed areas of the country avoid these very detrimental issues. (No not everyone in the community is engaged or support those activities, but enough do that it occurs openly).

[gg]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

Great video and I don't disagree with the Wendy Bell effect, Ferguson Effect, the question still remains what's next.
Black on Black exist. Don't forget White on White exist too. In recent weeks there were lower class White on White shootings in Washington and Uniontown covered by the news... outside of Allegheny County I don't know too much or have much to say except that the clearance rate is still higher. Which does indeed lead to Blacks needing to do more themselves. Police also have to prove trust worthy many who've cooperate get killed by gang members and there's no protection unless there's grand jury cases. Some prosecutors, attorneys who work for the gang members and certain task forece police officers have even given up names in the past.

I think you ARE going to see more white kids shooting each other because of drugs and it is happening already.

Anyway, I think the real answer is a grass roots effort because it will have more meaning in the end. No one wants outsiders to come in and fix the problem. If it comes from within, it will be a winner. I think it will happen. That video I provided from the Pittsburgh Courier is pretty powerful and I think people will get tired of burying their kids and start really making a difference. Maybe we are at the low that is needed to shift to a positive direction. Lets hope so.

[lprmesia]

Originally Posted by gg

I think people will get tired of burying their kids and start really making a difference. Maybe we are at the low that is needed to shift to a positive direction. Lets hope so.

A person is smart - people are dumb. We're all guilty of mixing the aggregate and the individual. Example:

The Subway by my work was robbed last year around this time and the robber was shot 3 times. The initial thoughts/comments were, "good - now people will learn not to rob and that Subway should be safe!" It was just robbed again within the past week. Over the 11 years I've lived here, I can't count how many times the National City/First Niagara/Key Bank (all the same bank) on Mt. Washington has been robbed, including multiple instances where suspects have been shot.

A person/individual learns. The aggregate/people don't. Is there a certain number of individuals that have to learn before an aggregate does? How does that work?

We all seem to know what doesn't work. Unfortunately, I don't think we as people have fully figured out what does work. I don't know of any individuals that have a full solution either.

[Uptown kid]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Step 1 should be to not let your kids join a f*cking gang.

More serious though, a lot of the issues can only be solved within the community. So long as snitching, joining a gang, & a general near acceptance of a gun culture & drug dealing as a vocation continues in the community nothing will improve in this year areas. Plenty of economically depressed areas of the country avoid these very detrimental issues. (No not everyone in the community is engaged or support those activities, but enough do that it occurs openly).

Black Slausons vs. White "Spooke Hunters" was one of Americas first modern gang rivalries... as Blacks from the Great Black Migration moved up from the Jim Crow racism in the South were dealt with racism before redlining. Slausons later become the Black Panther Party... Crips started right after Buncy Carter was assignated and Black Panther Party (who were anti-gang/drug) was disbanded by the F.B.I.'s CointelPro in South Central LA. Bloods were a reaction to the Crips. This was late 60's early 70's. The Black P. Stones, Vice Lords, Gangster Disciples, etc. in Chicago started even earlier.

Late 80's-early 90's modern gangs formed in Pittsburgh following the introduction of crack-cocaine (perhaps an epidemic founded by the CIA's Iran-Contra conflict). Many of the gang members today have parents who were gang members themselves. Most inner-city kids who weren't born into it are not gang members at all. They may be gang affiliated from growing up/not being able to move out of a certain neighborhood, but these are the folks work, go to trade school, community college, few to four year universities, the military or beyond. The oldest gang members in Allegheny County are approaching 60 yrs old and may even soon be grandparents to future gang members in the 2020's.

Street Gangs are a reaction to what exist in reality with racism, mass incarceration/felon status and a capitalist society. How can there be so many lynching and millions of Blacks fled the South to the inner city? How can people live so poor? How can there be so much blight/urban decay/overcrowding/redlining? How can there be so much over policing/police brutality/mass incarceration/mandatory minimums? How can there be so many drug/guns smuggled? How could there be such a lower class Black/Latino/White/Asian/Native American/Pacific Islander youth high unemployment rate? and there not be gangs???

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

Black Slausons vs. White "Spooke Hunters" was one of Americas first modern gang rivalries... as Blacks from the Great Black Migration moved up from the Jim Crow racism in the South were dealt with racism before redlining. Slausons later become the Black Panther Party... Crips started right after Buncy Carter was assignated and Black Panther Party (who were anti-gang/drug) was disbanded by the F.B.I.'s CointelPro in South Central LA. Bloods were a reaction to the Crips. This was late 60's early 70's. The Black P. Stones, Vice Lords, Gangster Disciples, etc. in Chicago started even earlier.

Late 80's-early 90's modern gangs formed in Pittsburgh following the introduction of crack-cocaine (perhaps an epidemic founded by the CIA's Iran-Contra conflict). Many of the gang members today have parents who were gang members themselves. Most inner-city kids who weren't born into it are not gang members at all. They may be gang affiliated from growing up/not being able to move out of a certain neighborhood, but these are the folks work, go to trade school, community college, few to four year universities, the military or beyond. The oldest gang members in Allegheny County are approaching 60 yrs old and may even soon be grandparents to future gang members in the 2020's.

Whatever the source of the gang is, unless those individuals are driven from the community or the community cracks down on reporting activity in a way that makes being in a gang or engaging in any gang type activity socially unacceptable & definite incarceration a likely result then the cycle of violence & general bad quality of life will continue in those communities.

Can you imagine the outcry & immediate action by people living there if someone tried to start a gang & doing those things in many other communities? I wouldn’t put up with it & neither should anyone.

[Paul2421]

Originally Posted by eschaton

My daughter attends Linden K-5, which is now a heavily black school. Most of her black classmates are from Homewood. One of her best friends lost her father to gun violence when she was an infant - he was fatally shot in an apparent random attack while he was holding her (the bullet grazed her leg). In another case a friend was walking with her mother when a random person was shot in front of her, and they had to provide medical attention until an ambulance arrived. Relatives of one student or another are lost almost every year it seems. I sometimes reflect upon how her experience, going to a mostly black school and hearing these stories, is so very different from my own growing up in lily-white suburbia.

there are plenty of instances of injustice in "lily-white suburbia"....ignoring this is part of the problem. the solution lies in how these instances are treated. we need to allocated resources effectively to the problems.