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Yes, it can be done. Around 2010, the people of the Denver regional transit district voted to increase their sales tax to raise the more than $4 billion needed for the transit system. And now they have a pretty good system of bus, light rail and commuter rail.
So the basic moral of the story is, voters agree to increase their taxes, which in turn raises billions of dollars, which is then used to build light/commuter rail lines throughout the metro area.
Seems pretty easy, now all you need to do in the Pittsburgh metroplex is to have people agree on increasing their taxes to pay for mass transit!
So the basic moral of the story is, voters agree to increase their taxes, which in turn raises billions of dollars, which is then used to build light/commuter rail lines throughout the metro area.
Seems pretty easy, now all you need to do in the Pittsburgh metroplex is to have people agree on increasing their taxes to pay for mass transit!
Pittsburgh would be able to pass this, but not the county and that's the problem.
Pittsburgh is unable to put a ballot initiative similar to Denver's on the books... our laws don't work that way. We also have exponentially more municipalities that would have to approve. Between the cost, hills, rivers, and fractured governments, there is far too much red tape.
Best bet for us is to create bus lanes with their own ROWs and keep going in that manner a la the uptown BRT. Do it citywide. Improve the airport flyer to true BRT standards all the way from the airport through Oakland. And drop those ****ing Robinson Twp stops.
Pittsburgh would be able to pass this, but not the county and that's the problem.
You never know. The RTD (Regional Transit District) takes in the City/County of Denver, City/County of Broomfield, and parts of Adams, Arapahoe, Boulder, Douglas, Jefferson and Weld Counties in Colorado. The total population was about 2 1/2 million people at the time, with 600,000 in Denver. That's a lot of people to convince, but they did it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronPGH
Pittsburgh is unable to put a ballot initiative similar to Denver's on the books... our laws don't work that way. We also have exponentially more municipalities that would have to approve. Between the cost, hills, rivers, and fractured governments, there is far too much red tape.
Best bet for us is to create bus lanes with their own ROWs and keep going in that manner a la the uptown BRT. Do it citywide. Improve the airport flyer to true BRT standards all the way from the airport through Oakland. And drop those ****ing Robinson Twp stops.
If the laws are different that's one thing. As far as convincing all your municipalities, it would be little different than Denver.
You never know. The RTD (Regional Transit District) takes in the City/County of Denver, City/County of Broomfield, and parts of Adams, Arapahoe, Boulder, Douglas, Jefferson and Weld Counties in Colorado. The total population was about 2 1/2 million people at the time, with 600,000 in Denver. That's a lot of people to convince, but they did it.
Greater Denver is also decidedly much more "fiscally progressive" overall than Greater Pittsburgh. Sure, maybe the urban core neighborhoods of the city proper, along with a few select "hip" 'burbs like Dormont, Aspinwall, Bellevue, and Millvale are " fiscally progressive", but roughly as many people live within those types of areas in Allegheny County as live within the more "stodgy/selfish/stick in the mud" outer suburban, exurban, and rural areas where people spent $300,000 on their McMansion on their 1/2-acre lot precisely to have privacy and wall/fence themselves off from others.
By "fiscally progressive" I mean "Sure, I'll pay more in taxes if it means it's to support the greater good." The city proper's electorate voted overwhelmingly on a self-imposed tax hike not long after I moved here to save our libraries. As such I'm sure many city proper residents (and residents of those hip/crunchy 'burbs) would likewise vote for a nominal tax increase for better transit. However, you'd have a whole bunch of people like erieguy's neighbors (hundreds of thousands) in the suburban/exurban townships who'd "rail" (pun intended) against ANY and ALL self-imposed tax increases, even if it could be demonstrated that by shifting more of the "other people/poor people/brown people" to using public transit that THEY could drive more freely on less congested freeways to work and spend far less time each year stuck in traffic. The notion of "I should vote to raise my own taxes because it benefits not only me but also society as a whole" is lost on about half of the residents of Allegheny County, so any effort here to replicate what Denver did would be a VERY uphill battle.
When one closes their eyes and thinks of a national map Denver (along with Seattle, Minneapolis, Austin, Portland, San Francisco, Boston, and others) makes the list of "progressive" cities. Pittsburgh does not. If and when we land Amazon's HQ2 (no offense, Katarina, but I think with CMU + East Coast location + cheap cost-of-living Pittsburgh has the edge in this bid over Denver) I'm sure national perception of Pittsburgh will become more favorable. As it stands right now whenever I pump up the city on social media and invite friends who have never visited before to come here the reaction tends to be "Thanks but no thanks" (or maybe I just have body odor?! )
I can (and will continue) to vote for any and all tax increases that support the greater good. I want to leave a better world for my precious 4-year-old niece someday. It's a shame so many others are selfish and would rather have one extra steak dinner per year than to instead pony that money up towards something special that could have a lasting impact upon our society.
We are already taxed to death in this region. Denver? Pennies in comparison. It is a little easier to swallow a tax increase if you are taxed at one of the lowest rates in the country. Pittsburgh area is taxed at one of the highest. I suggest we stop comparing the two places because they are NOTHING alike.
Greater Denver is also decidedly much more "fiscally progressive" overall than Greater Pittsburgh. Sure, maybe the urban core neighborhoods of the city proper, along with a few select "hip" 'burbs like Dormont, Aspinwall, Bellevue, and Millvale are " fiscally progressive", but roughly as many people live within those types of areas in Allegheny County as live within the more "stodgy/selfish/stick in the mud" outer suburban, exurban, and rural areas where people spent $300,000 on their McMansion on their 1/2-acre lot precisely to have privacy and wall/fence themselves off from others.
By "fiscally progressive" I mean "Sure, I'll pay more in taxes if it means it's to support the greater good." The city proper's electorate voted overwhelmingly on a self-imposed tax hike not long after I moved here to save our libraries. As such I'm sure many city proper residents (and residents of those hip/crunchy 'burbs) would likewise vote for a nominal tax increase for better transit. However, you'd have a whole bunch of people like erieguy's neighbors (hundreds of thousands) in the suburban/exurban townships who'd "rail" (pun intended) against ANY and ALL self-imposed tax increases, even if it could be demonstrated that by shifting more of the "other people/poor people/brown people" to using public transit that THEY could drive more freely on less congested freeways to work and spend far less time each year stuck in traffic. The notion of "I should vote to raise my own taxes because it benefits not only me but also society as a whole" is lost on about half of the residents of Allegheny County, so any effort here to replicate what Denver did would be a VERY uphill battle.
When one closes their eyes and thinks of a national map Denver (along with Seattle, Minneapolis, Austin, Portland, San Francisco, Boston, and others) makes the list of "progressive" cities. Pittsburgh does not. If and when we land Amazon's HQ2 (no offense, Katarina, but I think with CMU + East Coast location + cheap cost-of-living Pittsburgh has the edge in this bid over Denver) I'm sure national perception of Pittsburgh will become more favorable. As it stands right now whenever I pump up the city on social media and invite friends who have never visited before to come here the reaction tends to be "Thanks but no thanks" (or maybe I just have body odor?! )
I can (and will continue) to vote for any and all tax increases that support the greater good. I want to leave a better world for my precious 4-year-old niece someday. It's a shame so many others are selfish and would rather have one extra steak dinner per year than to instead pony that money up towards something special that could have a lasting impact upon our society.
It is disappointing that you have such a black and white view of the world. There are more people than you think that take transit from all over the metro that would definitely support a comprehensive transit plan.
See here's the problem: there's nothing preventing those businesses and people who support building this to the airport from funding it themselves. But the tiny violins emerge when coercion of those who oppose it is needed.
Greater Denver is also decidedly much more "fiscally progressive" overall than Greater Pittsburgh. Sure, maybe the urban core neighborhoods of the city proper, along with a few select "hip" 'burbs like Dormont, Aspinwall, Bellevue, and Millvale are " fiscally progressive", but roughly as many people live within those types of areas in Allegheny County as live within the more "stodgy/selfish/stick in the mud" outer suburban, exurban, and rural areas where people spent $300,000 on their McMansion on their 1/2-acre lot precisely to have privacy and wall/fence themselves off from others.
By "fiscally progressive" I mean "Sure, I'll pay more in taxes if it means it's to support the greater good." The city proper's electorate voted overwhelmingly on a self-imposed tax hike not long after I moved here to save our libraries. As such I'm sure many city proper residents (and residents of those hip/crunchy 'burbs) would likewise vote for a nominal tax increase for better transit. However, you'd have a whole bunch of people like erieguy's neighbors (hundreds of thousands) in the suburban/exurban townships who'd "rail" (pun intended) against ANY and ALL self-imposed tax increases, even if it could be demonstrated that by shifting more of the "other people/poor people/brown people" to using public transit that THEY could drive more freely on less congested freeways to work and spend far less time each year stuck in traffic. The notion of "I should vote to raise my own taxes because it benefits not only me but also society as a whole" is lost on about half of the residents of Allegheny County, so any effort here to replicate what Denver did would be a VERY uphill battle.
When one closes their eyes and thinks of a national map Denver (along with Seattle, Minneapolis, Austin, Portland, San Francisco, Boston, and others) makes the list of "progressive" cities. Pittsburgh does not. If and when we land Amazon's HQ2 (no offense, Katarina, but I think with CMU + East Coast location + cheap cost-of-living Pittsburgh has the edge in this bid over Denver) I'm sure national perception of Pittsburgh will become more favorable. As it stands right now whenever I pump up the city on social media and invite friends who have never visited before to come here the reaction tends to be "Thanks but no thanks" (or maybe I just have body odor?! )
I can (and will continue) to vote for any and all tax increases that support the greater good. I want to leave a better world for my precious 4-year-old niece someday. It's a shame so many others are selfish and would rather have one extra steak dinner per year than to instead pony that money up towards something special that could have a lasting impact upon our society.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gg
We are already taxed to death in this region. Denver? Pennies in comparison. It is a little easier to swallow a tax increase if you are taxed at one of the lowest rates in the country. Pittsburgh area is taxed at one of the highest. I suggest we stop comparing the two places because they are NOTHING alike.
Denver isn't trying real hard for Amazon. Yes, its hat, or rather Colorado's, is in the ring, but Colorado is not proposing all sorts of massive tax breaks for them. We have one of the lowest UE rates in the country and a shortage of tech workers to fill jobs as it is. https://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/1...olorado-pitch/
@gg-Yes, our taxes are low in comparison to eastern and midwestern cities. We pay about the same in property taxes on our 2500 sf house built in 1980 as my inlaws paid on a 900 sf bungalow built in 1936 in Omaha. However, that's not how people think when a tax increase proposal comes up on the ballot. The reason we vote on all our taxes is because of a tax limitation proposal put into the Colorado constitution called TABOR (Taxpayers Bill of Rights). I didn't support TABOR and don't like it, but it's the law.
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