Suburb of the week: McKeesport (Pittsburgh, Greensburg: new house, neighborhood, theatre)

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by PghYinzer

I don't think Amazon is the reason for lack of social engagement by most people. I use Amazon all of the time and would definitely be into getting my groceries delivered if it was cheap and convenient. Cutting out the time it takes for me to go to the grocery store or do other shopping, opens up more time for me to be social in a real way. Time with friends, family, dinners out, volunteer work, or just out about about in parks and what not. Grocery shopping is not true social engagement, its a burden due to the crappy stores and crappy people you deal with.

Bingo.

Amazon and related services aren’t going anywhere. Convenience is what most people desire.

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant

Yes, this. I'm not talking about McKeesport gentrifying, or becoming expensive or crowded or upscale. I'm talking about gradual revitalization, in which local amenities improve slowly, but the cost of living remains low and people are able to live with small mortgages, or even no mortgages at all, while they still enjoy being in a small city that is definitely not a suburb, and yet day-trip distance to a larger city. I know lots of people who want to pursue careers that are creative, or public service oriented, and want to be able to live comfortably on $35k/year or less, because they just have a modest day job to pay the bills and they spend most of their energy making art or poetry or whatever else they want to make.

That lifestyle used to be possible in Pittsburgh, but it's getting harder to do in *any* city of Pittsburgh's size, which is why I imagine smaller cities could make a comeback -- not as "bedroom communities" for people who want to commute to someplace else, but just as interesting places to live for people who want a certain lifestyle. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but still I think there's room for McKeesport to improve gradually over the next generation or so.

Exactly. I make about $35k a year. This is plenty of money for a single person with no college debt, in my opinion. However, if you have expensive taste, or want to live in the trendiest section of a big city and drive a new car, it's probably low.

Pittsburgh was appealing to me because it was a big city where the trendy core neighborhoods were somewhat affordable. They weren't cheap, but they were affordable. That has changed. The affordable neighborhoods in 2018 are not the trendy ones. They are usually more suburban in character.

If you are a working class person and want to live in an urban, historic area, with a business district, that doesn't feel like a suburb, you have to look in the old mill towns and surrounding small cities. I love the county seats for that reason. Greensburg, Uniontown, Washington, Butler all have the urban feel without feeling like a suburb. Pittsburgh's core has become catered to a more affluent class. I don't think social service workers, artists, or Bohemians are the intended demographic. Places like Dormont, Mt. Lebanon, Brookline, Bellevue, Oakmont, etc. have walkable business districts and old neighborhoods, but they feel distinctly suburban, family oriented, and anything but edgy. McKeesport is edgy, eccentric, weird, haunting, authentic, ugly and beautiful at the same time. It's a cool place. It's also full of really strange but interesting people.

[Bazzwell]

Mon City, or Monongahela, has more or less survived by not really being close to anything. And, not having to survive on a single industry. It's just far enough away from everything else which means you still have a good local business base. Crime? One of the safer places in the valley.

The real estate market was always good in Mon City. Also in neighboring New Eagle for that matter. A few miles down the road is Donora, a completely different story.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Bazzwell

Mon City, or Monongahela, has more or less survived by not really being close to anything. And, not having to survive on a single industry. It's just far enough away from everything else which means you still have a good local business base. Crime? One of the safer places in the valley.

The real estate market was always good in Mon City. Also in neighboring New Eagle for that matter. A few miles down the road is Donora, a completely different story.

I have a minor house crush on this one in Mon City. Looks almost completely intact from the outside, with only minor issues (gutters and second-floor railing are not historic). Fix that and have a less panchromatic paint job, and it would be a real gem.

[Geeo]

Downtown McKeesport still had life into the 1980s. Even though the National Tube Works was winding down (it closed in 1987), people still went downtown to shop at Cox's department store, Jaison's, Immel's, Goodman Jewelry, H L Green, and many others. Cox's was the anchor to the business district and once that closed, so did many of the others. Sears and Penney's were downtown until the early 60s, when Eastland Plaza opened.

[captainmidnight]

Originally Posted by PghYinzer

I don't think Amazon is the reason for lack of social engagement by most people. I use Amazon all of the time and would definitely be into getting my groceries delivered if it was cheap and convenient. Cutting out the time it takes for me to go to the grocery store or do other shopping, opens up more time for me to be social in a real way. Time with friends, family, dinners out, volunteer work, or just out about about in parks and what not. Grocery shopping is not true social engagement, its a burden due to the crappy stores and crappy people you deal with.

Yes, it would be great if they had Prime Now in this area. How is Giant Eagle's Curbside Express delivery?

I have four small kids and if I need some groceries today (especially since it is a snow day from school) I have to bundle them up and take them to the store. I would absolutely pay a premium for the convenience of same day delivery, lack of social engagement be damned. If it was summer or if the kids were older, its not a big deal to me.

[captainmidnight]

Originally Posted by Geeo

Downtown McKeesport still had life into the 1980s. Even though the National Tube Works was winding down (it closed in 1987), people still went downtown to shop at Cox's department store, Jaison's, Immel's, Goodman Jewelry, H L Green, and many others. Cox's was the anchor to the business district and once that closed, so did many of the others. Sears and Penney's were downtown until the early 60s, when Eastland Plaza opened.

Its wild to see pictures of Downtown McKeesport back in those days. So much people, so much life. Spending a day there was a big adventure for a lot of people, I bet.

I am pleased at the amount of transit service that is still there. Off the top of my head, six different routes serve McKeesport. Half go to Pittsburgh and the other half are local going to North Versailles, West Mifflin, Glassport, or Versailles, Also the Port Authority just improved the Transportation Center in Phase 1 and expanded the Park and Ride parking there.

[RogersParkTransplant]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

Pittsburgh was appealing to me because it was a big city where the trendy core neighborhoods were somewhat affordable. They weren't cheap, but they were affordable. That has changed. The affordable neighborhoods in 2018 are not the trendy ones. They are usually more suburban in character.

If you are a working class person and want to live in an urban, historic area, with a business district, that doesn't feel like a suburb, you have to look in the old mill towns and surrounding small cities. I love the county seats for that reason. Greensburg, Uniontown, Washington, Butler all have the urban feel without feeling like a suburb. Pittsburgh's core has become catered to a more affluent class. I don't think social service workers, artists, or Bohemians are the intended demographic. Places like Dormont, Mt. Lebanon, Brookline, Bellevue, Oakmont, etc. have walkable business districts and old neighborhoods, but they feel distinctly suburban, family oriented, and anything but edgy. McKeesport is edgy, eccentric, weird, haunting, authentic, ugly and beautiful at the same time. It's a cool place. It's also full of really strange but interesting people.

How about your property in Woods Run? That area is changing too, and reading your thoughts here I wonder if, by the time your place is fixed up, you might just decide to sell it and stay in McKeesport anyway. I hope not, of course, but I am curious if you will end up feeling a little annoyed and alienated as the North side gentrifies more and more.

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant

How about your property in Woods Run? That area is changing too, and reading your thoughts here I wonder if, by the time your place is fixed up, you might just decide to sell it and stay in McKeesport anyway. I hope not, of course, but I am curious if you will end up feeling a little annoyed and alienated as the North side gentrifies more and more.

Fortunately, I don't see Woods Run gentrifying, although I hope it stabilizes! Right now it's kind of rough, and I can't say if it's on an upward trajectory. I like Woods Run because I can walk to things like the library or the little business district, or Riverview Park, or the river trail by the Penitentiary. I look forward to biking downtown someday. I also adore the tiny size of the house. I have learned that I do not prefer the utilities or upkeep on a large house. I also don't need ten rooms to wander through.

I live in a very pleasant section of McKeesport, but being one of McKeesport's later-developed streetcar neighborhoods on the edge of the city, it's not walkable. It has sidewalks, but it's not near a business district or a park or a river.

Generally, I think I will prefer living at Woods Run. The comps in McKeesport have gone up since I bought my house in 2013, and I bought it for less than it was worth. I should be able to make out well. It's just going to be a pain selling a house full of antiques and downsizing.

I do anticipate that I will keep restoring houses and moving around as I do that.

[RogersParkTransplant]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

Fortunately, I don't see Woods Run gentrifying, although I hope it stabilizes! Right now it's kind of rough, and I can't say if it's on an upward trajectory. I like Woods Run because I can walk to things like the library or the little business district, or Riverview Park, or the river trail by the Penitentiary. I look forward to biking downtown someday. I also adore the tiny size of the house. I have learned that I do not prefer the utilities or upkeep on a large house. I also don't need ten rooms to wander through.

I live in a very pleasant section of McKeesport, but being one of McKeesport's later-developed streetcar neighborhoods on the edge of the city, it's not walkable. It has sidewalks, but it's not near a business district or a park or a river.

Generally, I think I will prefer living at Woods Run. The comps in McKeesport have gone up since I bought my house in 2013, and I bought it for less than it was worth. I should be able to make out well. It's just going to be a pain selling a house full of antiques and downsizing.

Glad to read all this, and good luck when the time comes! I've had multiple conversations in the past few months with people who have bought large homes in Marshall-Shadeland, and pretty much all of them consider themselves walking distance to the Woods Run library, so they must be fairly close to you. But it's true that the area has a long ways to go before we can describe this as "gentrification" -- so hopefully what I'm seeing is signs of a slow upward trajectory, leading to stabilization but not drastic change.