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Old 11-12-2008, 08:36 PM
 
269 posts, read 1,007,242 times
Reputation: 61

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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Well, then it's not year round, and you'll still have to pay 11 months of pay for the extra month(s). Next you'll complain about the teachers who have a whole month off. What about daycare for that month? You've mentioned daycare in several of your posts, which tells me that is your primary concern-babysitting and you don't think babysitters should get paid that well.

I grew up in the"redneck" area of NW PA and now live in another state so I really should be out of this but just to reinforce Simonpitt's post, I have 25 years teaching, salary topped out 5 years ago, my COLA this year (association negotiated, MD doesn't have teacher's unions) is 1%. My pension contribution went up from 6% to 8% of pre-tax income and when I do retire my pension is subject to MD income tax. I think it's funny hearing all the whining about wages coming from an area where labor unions priced themselves out of the market.
As an aside, I happen to think there are areas in PA where the teacher salaries are out of line with the area's income levels but you can't have it both ways-brag about Pittsburgh's leadership in bio-tech and other 21st Century jobs and expect teachers, who train those workers, to not get a return on their tuition investment. BA in Biology $34K teaching or $60K at research company? Choose one.
1 month is an option. It could be 2 weeks. It is just an alternative to 3 months, and countless holidays/breaks.

You really shouldn't complain about your pension. It is under funded, and under the P.A. constitution, it is guaranteed by the tax payers.

What would you think if your pension suddenly went down 40%, like the rest of America? Would you be mad? Your pension is unheard of in the free market.

I'm all for paying a real good wage to our teachers. But what is right is year round schooling. Whether that is July off, or 1 week a month in the summer, or whatever, it is better than taking 3 months off. But again, it is what about what's best for our kids, we would have had year round schooling years ago.
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Old 11-12-2008, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
12,529 posts, read 17,446,660 times
Reputation: 10629
Sorry, have to disagree. The 3 month vacation for kids is great, why would you want to take that away? My best memories growing up are from those summers, making money, playing ball, you name it. I don't think it hurt my intellectual growth, then again, who knows.

As to teachers only working 9 months. How about next Saturday you invite 25 eight year olds to your house for 8 hours and you try to keep their attention. Teaching is a tough job, I know I couldn't do it.
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Old 11-12-2008, 08:55 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,937 posts, read 59,929,483 times
Reputation: 60475
My pension is defined benefit so isn't subject to the fluctuations of other pension vehicles like 401Ks, and it's potential was cut 30% about seven years ago when the State of MD "recalibrated". MD pensions aren't underfunded, that's you private industry guys that get to do that and then stick the taxpayers with the bill. If you're so hot for year round school then get your school board to begin to implement it. You and I both know that won't happen and it won't be because of the teachers. But I guess it's easier to get on a web site and complain.

You still haven't told me one of the main reasons heavy industry left SW PA, well all of PA it seems like.

Or which job YOU'D take: teaching Bio at 34K or researching at 60K.
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
12,529 posts, read 17,446,660 times
Reputation: 10629
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
You still haven't told me one of the main reasons heavy industry left SW PA, well all of PA it seems like.
Legacy costs, cheap foreign labor, ridiculous union demands, management bonuses and parachutes, lousy baseball team.
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Old 11-26-2008, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
14 posts, read 38,208 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by right-here-i-say View Post
beckyzaz, The "if you can't beat them, join them" is not the way we should be thinking....it is about the kids. We are really hurting our children by keeping them at home during the summers. Plus, not all parents have the money to stay at home or pay for childcare. Most teachers will tell you that the 1st month back is basically trying to get the kids back to where they were 3 months before.

If it was about the kids, we would have year round schooling. It is about the teachers, and their wish for summers off. If I was a teacher I would like 3 months off a year, of course, the kids will suffer but I would be happy.
First things first... I am a teacher. I love my job, it is my passion in life. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I would still teach my kids. I have taught high school special education and also elementary grades. I spend a GREAT deal of my free time developing lessons and planning. I am not attempting to make an argument for summers off because I teach at a year round school. We do get a summer holiday and it lasts about 6 weeks. For any of you that doubt that kids need time off in the summer I invite you to come spend the last 2 weeks of school with any teacher in any class. You will see that the kids are SPENT and are in dire need of a break.

Now, as for teacher salaries. I teach in Arizona and I am not sure of what your salaries and benefits are there in PA, but I know nation wide teachers in their first year earn an average of about 35k, which is pretty standard for a new college graduate. (and I can't forget to mention that I spend ALOT of my own money to make my classroom a great place to learn and give my kids the best) BUT, that 35k comes with strings attached! Most of us are required to either continue our education and get a master's degree or continue our education by attending professional development camps, seminars and workshops. THIS, my dear friends, is how we teachers spend our "summers off" that you so loathe.

And lastly, teaching is a tough but extraordinary career. For 8 hours a day we are mom, dad, teacher, nurse, friend, confidant, day care professional, and social worker. Many kids come to us who have a horrible, unspeakable home life and it is our job to give them stability and normalcy. These are the things that you aren't taught in college, and the things that make our jobs hard but so rewarding. So next time you want to complain about how much teachers earn, think again and remember that unless you teach you have NO IDEA what a teacher really does. Teaching skills is only 1 of our many hats that we wear.
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:08 PM
 
269 posts, read 1,007,242 times
Reputation: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
Well, I can't stop you from using whatever term you wish, but as I noted that isn't the definition of a Ponzi scheme. And I would again note that running a pension in this way can be a lot more efficient than requiring each employee to individually fund their own pension.

Edit: By the way, I just looked it up and PSERS is now about 86% funded (up from about 50% in 1982). So, if you wanted to phase out PSERS and replace it with individual accounts, that is the gap you would have to make up to complete the transition.

This is a good time to bring this discussion back, since now the PSERS is even more unfunded, and is on pace to be bankrupt much sooner.
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Old 04-25-2009, 07:30 PM
 
2 posts, read 7,390 times
Reputation: 10
Default Just so you know...

I have been teaching pre k and pre school in well respected schools for the last 15 years. The most I ever made was 18,500/ 12 month year. That was in Columbia, MD.

I live in Western PA. I have a master's degree in special education. The last 4 years I have been working in a high quality preschool for less than $10/hour. Last year, I had 3 children with autism in my class, not to mention the handful of other children with issues. It is real work! It isn't all rainbows and playdoh. You apparently haven't worked with scared parents that wonder what is wrong with their child. You haven't bought countless coats and mittens for children who have parents that just don't care. It is clear- some of you just have no idea what it is like to be a teacher. It isn't a walk in the park, it is work. The area where I work has about 35% poverty level. Heck, if my husband didn't have professional pay...I would be part of that poverty statistic. What I do matters. Did you ever consider where these children would be if there weren't people like me, who care. You would be spending the taxes on juvie centers and prisons, and welfare. Sometimes teachers are the only positive role models these children have.

Onto another topic- the pay of Western PA teachers. Since I have a master's degree in special education, I am now one of the thousands competing for the few jobs offered here. The competition is brutal. I will agree on one point, sometimes the best qualfied candidate isn't hired because of politics. I would be more than happy having one of those high paying jobs. I have worked for almost nothing for 15 years. I could have made more on welfare, but I choose to work with special needs children.

I have 2 sisters.
One has a bs in engineering. When she was 6 years out of college, she ws making 120,000/ year is Arkansas at a paper mill. One year, her raise was more than I made in an entire year. That is the private sector for you...

My other sister has a MS in Public Health from Pitt. She worked as a genetic counselor for over $60,000 right out of the master's program. Yes, these are science fields, but honestly- I have more professional education than both of them.

So, when you want to beef about what teachers earn- compare it to the private sector. Okay- they have summers off. If you want to call making photocopies, setting up a classroom, preparing materials that most people won't appreciate a vacation- that is your decision.

Of course there are a few lugnut teachers who are ruining it for the majority.

FYI- Kindergarten isn't that easy to teach. There is typically a very large spectrum of student ability. Some kids are ready to read and others have never seen an alphabet. You try planning for that, and doing it on you own everyday...Don't forget to add in the special needs students who haven't been "identified" to make it extra exciting.

We teach because we are damn good at it. It does take a special person to do it, day after day after day.

After my numerous years of working for poverty level wages, I will gladly serve my community well- as one of the "overpaid" teachers any day.

You want to gripe about pay...look at athletics.

Okay- that is my 2 cents worth. Walk a mile in my shoes one day.
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Old 04-25-2009, 07:37 PM
 
2 posts, read 7,390 times
Reputation: 10
Forgot to add this, it isn't necessarily the teacher pensions raising the taxes...it is special education. It costs a ton of money for ramps, special buses, instruction devices and support staff. That is where the real money is going. Also, big bucks are spent on stadiums like Pine Richland and Hempfield. I can't recall any professional football players emerging out of either district.

Money should be spent on strong curriculum, good teachers and excellent supplies- not astroturf.
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Old 04-25-2009, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Forest Hills
374 posts, read 1,281,246 times
Reputation: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by beckyzaz View Post
First things first... I am a teacher. I love my job, it is my passion in life. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I would still teach my kids. I have taught high school special education and also elementary grades. I spend a GREAT deal of my free time developing lessons and planning. I am not attempting to make an argument for summers off because I teach at a year round school. We do get a summer holiday and it lasts about 6 weeks. For any of you that doubt that kids need time off in the summer I invite you to come spend the last 2 weeks of school with any teacher in any class. You will see that the kids are SPENT and are in dire need of a break.

Now, as for teacher salaries. I teach in Arizona and I am not sure of what your salaries and benefits are there in PA, but I know nation wide teachers in their first year earn an average of about 35k, which is pretty standard for a new college graduate. (and I can't forget to mention that I spend ALOT of my own money to make my classroom a great place to learn and give my kids the best) BUT, that 35k comes with strings attached! Most of us are required to either continue our education and get a master's degree or continue our education by attending professional development camps, seminars and workshops. THIS, my dear friends, is how we teachers spend our "summers off" that you so loathe.

And lastly, teaching is a tough but extraordinary career. For 8 hours a day we are mom, dad, teacher, nurse, friend, confidant, day care professional, and social worker. Many kids come to us who have a horrible, unspeakable home life and it is our job to give them stability and normalcy. These are the things that you aren't taught in college, and the things that make our jobs hard but so rewarding. So next time you want to complain about how much teachers earn, think again and remember that unless you teach you have NO IDEA what a teacher really does. Teaching skills is only 1 of our many hats that we wear.

We need more teachers like you good job.

Sorry for getting off subject.
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Old 04-26-2009, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
1,142 posts, read 2,805,758 times
Reputation: 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
I'd actually be interested to see what the average salary for a professional with a Master's degree and 27 years of experience in their field might be. I'm guessing it is pretty high.
Both my husband and I have Master's Degrees and though I have taken time from outside work to raise my kids, my husband is still working as an administrator and has over 20 years experience. You can bet your life he doesn't make close to the $90,000 dollars the teachers in our school district make and he works three jobs! Some of my kids teachers in elementary and middle school make $90,000 after 15 to 20 years experience.

And as for their day being so hard, my kids have come home telling me that the teachers are on vacation this week, again (isn't 3 months time plus every holiday enough?), surfing the internet looking for exotic bras during class time and talking on their cell phones while students wait for help with school work. My kids have been yelled at, punished with lunch detention, and basically treated like lower life forms at school. And my kids are well behaved!

And by the way, a lot of our teachers don't even have Master's degrees. Most of the time, our teachers are hired because they know someone in the local government or are related to someone. My daughter's elementary school teacher was hired this way and she used to send memos home with many misspelled words. I spend a lot of my time dealing with the problems at my children's schools. And with those salaries coming out of my taxes, I shouldn't have to.
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