Pennsylvania / Pittsburgh teacher salaries (Rankin: community college, living in, assessments)

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Mtl-Cns

First off, I'm not at all talking about tiger parenting. Not even close. Never even heard of it until I read your link.

Correction: You didn't realize you were talking about tiger parenting until you read my link. You weren't aware of why/how Asian students tend to be better at math and science. All you saw was the end result and assumed it was a good thing.

Originally Posted by Mtl-Cns

I'm talking about checking in with your kids, making sure that they're keeping up with their assignments, letting them know that you value the work that they do in school, show interest in the work that they do in school, let them know how education has benefited you, talk about their future plans, reward them for doing well, show respect for their teachers and administrators at their school so that they will, maybe give them a workbook or something over a long holiday to practice math or Spanish instead of playing video games all day. Maybe you grew up in a family like this but not everyone did.

Everything you describe is typical parenting of non-disadvantaged white students. Since they make up a large percentage of CMU's student population, it's clearly working. There's no need to go all tiger on kids.

[Mtl-Cns]

Originally Posted by Hopes

There's a larger percentage of white students at CMU than Asians. If you mean the percentage of the Asian student population compared to the US demographics, that's irrelevant since a significant percentage of CMU students are international/foreign. There's over a billion Asians in China alone. The world's population is 57% Asian.

The foreign born Asians/1st gen Asians should be the ones we're talking about because that is where the most dramatic cultural differences lie and the students whose math/science test scores to which American students of all races are compared!

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by Hopes

There's a larger percentage of white students at CMU than Asians. If you mean the percentage of the Asian student population compared to the US demographics, that's irrelevant since a significant percentage of CMU students are international/foreign. There's over a billion Asians in China alone. The world's population is 57% Asian.

I don't know about CMU specifcally, but nationwide Asains (of US citizenry) far outweigh any other US demographic in terms of college attendance

For CMU, if someone has the overall attendance numbers for undergrad Asains, of those, 583 are foreign according to their demographics info.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Mtl-Cns

The foreign born Asians/1st gen Asians should be the ones we're talking about because that is where the most dramatic cultural differences lie and the students whose math/science test scores to which American students of all races are compared!

You brought up CMU's student demographics as proof when CMU doesn't have a greater representation of Asian students to the world population. You dragged Asians into the discussion as the standard of parenting successful math and science students without having a CLUE how Asian parents produce those results. Then you describe the typical parenting standards of privileged white students. You're just all over the place with this. If you don't feel white students are performing well enough, the parenting of privileged white students isn't the proper blueprint. If Asians are truly superior in math and science performance, I contend tiger parenting is too high of a price to pay for that performance.

[Mtl-Cns]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Everything you describe is typical parenting of non-disadvantaged white students. Since they make up a large percentage of CMU's student population, it's clearly working. There's no need to go all tiger on kids.

Can't really speak for non-disadvantaged white students (again, whatever the criteria for that is) but in general I don't think it's at all typical in the general population. I also think that parents of all races and economic backgrounds could show disinterest in their kids and figure that the school will fix it (whether it's an elite prep school or public school.) And also I'm not sure how showing an interest in your kids, sharing your successful and failures and demonstrating respect is going "all tiger." I think it's a very human thing to do.

[Mtl-Cns]

Originally Posted by Hopes

You are missing the point. You're the one who brought up CMU's student demographics as proof when CMU doesn't have a greater representation of Asian students to the world population. You dragged Asians into the discussion as the standard of parenting successful math and science students without having a CLUE how Asian parents produce those results. Then you describe the typical parenting standards of privileged white students. You're just all over the place with this. If you don't feel white students are performing well enough, the parenting of privileged white students isn't the proper blueprint. If Asians are truly superior in math and science performance, I contend tiger parenting is too high of a price to pay for that performance.

1 - Of course I don't have a clue how educational results are created. If I, or anyone else did, then the problem would be universally solved! I was merely making a conjecture that is cultural. Different cultures value different things.

2- I don't think that what I described is at all typical for any race. I think that those are some suggestions of how a parent could work with teachers and schools to do the best they can do for their kids.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Mtl-Cns

And also I'm not sure how showing an interest in your kids, sharing your successful and failures and demonstrating respect is going "all tiger." I think it's a very human thing to do.

There is a difference between the parenting you described and tiger parenting. Society benefits from both types of parenting. Tiger parenting produces the results you want. What you described doesn't produce the same results. It increases performance but not to the level of Asian students in math and science.

[doo dah]

Please note that the information from CMU's Fact Book page 39 states Country of Citizenship.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Mtl-Cns

1 - Of course I don't have a clue how educational results are created. If I, or anyone else did, then the problem would be universally solved! I was merely making a conjecture that is cultural. Different cultures value different things.

Exactly. I think mental health is a greater value to individuals and society than math and science performance.

Instead of focusing on cultural differences, I recommend looking at socioeconomic differences.

Originally Posted by Mtl-Cns

2- I don't think that what I described is at all typical for any race. I think that those are some suggestions of how a parent could work with teachers and schools to do the best they can do for their kids.

It is. Middle class parents are more actively involved in their children's education. Sociology 101.

Douglas related educational attainment to a variety of factors, including the student’s health, the size of the family, and the quality of the school. The most important factor was the degree of parents’ interest in their child’s education. In general middle-class parents expressed a greater interest, as indicated by their more frequent visits to the school to discuss their children’s education. They were more likely to want their children to stay at school beyond the minimum leaving age. Douglas found that parental interest and encouragement became increasingly important as a spur to high attainment as the children grew older.

Class Subcultures and Education

[Mtl-Cns]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Instead of focusing on cultural differences, I recommend looking at socioeconomic differences.

I apologize if by "Asian" you assumed that I meant those of Asian ethnicity who have been US citizens for generations. Probably my fault for not having been clearer and could explain why you've been so reluctant to accept things from a few different posters besides just me. That's why from the CMU data the country in which they were born is so important. I've meant "Asian" as in born in an Asian country or currently a US citizen but your parents/grandparents were schooled in an Asian country therefore they have retained a lot of the cultural identify of being Asian.

It's hard to look at something like this: Rankings Of Countries In Math And Science - Business Insider
and not think that culture must have something to do with it.