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Old 03-29-2008, 09:38 AM
 
269 posts, read 1,007,242 times
Reputation: 61

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinetar10 View Post
if you think its such a great job with outlandish pay and benefits, then why would you not choose that career?
everybody has a choice to make. if you think thats the utopia of careers, stop complaining about it and go back to school and become a teacher.
I would suspect many complainers would be gone within the first week of teaching.
Many of you have no idea how much time and effort a teacher puts in. Its not simply an 8 to 4 job 5 days per week. many many many more hours are put in.
and sorry to break the news to you, but there are many educational requirements beyond the teaching degree, which is what many teachers work on during the summer
60% of our nations teachers strikes are in Pennsylvania. As long as we are forced to pay high salaries to select individuals, teachers will be able to retire at age 50 with $40K per year pensions and benefits for life. (I know 3 teachers of this age who did this, and then left Allegheny County because the taxes were too high.

For all of those failed city schools, you could have twice as many teachers giving hands on help with the same tax dollars we have now. You could also teach year round, and not waste the 1st and last month of each school year, and give parents a break by not having them pay babysitters all summer. But it is not about the students or learning, it is about primarily about teachers salaries and the ability to strike if they don't get want they want, and hold our children hostage.

There are not enough jobs right now for people who want to get into teaching. Many graduates are leaving the state to even find a job. These teachers would take half of what the current teachers are getting. Is anybody saying that somebody who got a masters degree in 1980 is 100% better nthan somebody who got theirs in the year 2000?

In the free market, lawyers, doctors, computer professionals, administrative assistants, accountants are not all guaranteed a job and raise after they start. They must prove themselves (and not just take additional courses). Most must go from company to company to get ahead (and many times state to state) None of these people get summers off, and most of them do not get guaranteed pensions (unless they work for the Government). People with experience will make more than others doing the same exact job, BUT NOT DOUBLE (in most cases) And ALL workers in the free market must continue their education if they want to survive in their field. This doesn't just pertain to teachers.

I hear a lot of "Why don't you teach instead of complain" talk. If I tought, it doesn't help the problem, it just helps me, as I probably wouldn't be a good teacher anyways. Remember, educating our kids is one of the most important thing our country can do. The teachers unions are stopping this, using our tax dollars for guaranteed pensions and salaries.

This is the same as the PAT Transit bus driver making $93K per year, and then $46K per year for life. PAT's goal is not transit, it is high paying jobs for friends.

...In conclusion, if teaching was the #1 priority, we would have more teachers per student and teach year round. We cannot do this because our tax dollars (which really cannot go higher) are spending it towards lavish pensions and extremely high salaries for some. And of course, who wouldn't want to have summers off? If my boss asked me if I wanted them off, I would say yes. But I work in the free market, not Government.

Why is it that these people are considered "better" than everyone else? Why do they get lavish pensions? Why do they get 3 months off a year? Nobody seems to have answers to these questions.
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Old 03-29-2008, 01:28 PM
 
41 posts, read 466,381 times
Reputation: 49
88K for a kindergarten teacher? Jesus. What a life.
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Old 03-29-2008, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,219,944 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinetar10 View Post
if you think its such a great job with outlandish pay and benefits, then why would you not choose that career?
everybody has a choice to make. if you think thats the utopia of careers, stop complaining about it and go back to school and become a teacher.
I would suspect many complainers would be gone within the first week of teaching.
Many of you have no idea how much time and effort a teacher puts in. Its not simply an 8 to 4 job 5 days per week. many many many more hours are put in.
and sorry to break the news to you, but there are many educational requirements beyond the teaching degree, which is what many teachers work on during the summer
See my answer below, already posted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
For working 3/4 of the year, and having virtually every holiday off, plus sometimes days before and after the holiday(s), they are doing very well. Yes, it's stressful. What professional job isn't?
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Old 03-29-2008, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,606 posts, read 77,287,663 times
Reputation: 19071
Wow! I thought teacher-bashing was only confined to Scranton!

My sister happens to be one of these "extravagant" teachers. She is completing her second year of service as an English and Journalism teacher at our alma mater, and she is earning a salary of $35,490, according to this database. I will be graduating with my Bachelor's Degree in Accounting in May 2009, and males with accounting degrees typically START at salaries of around $42,000 in my area, which is much more than my sister currently earns after two years with the district as a full-time educator and a prior year as a substitute teacher.

With my Bachelor's Degree (and CPA certification) alone, I can easily outearn that "overpaid" kindergarten teacher you cited in the private sector. I plan to continue my education to at least my MBA, and then potentially also pursue my Ph.D. in Accounting, both of which will help to launch my career into the near-six-figure range as I rise the ranks of the private sector.

My point is not to brag. My point is to illustrate that if you are unhappy with your current career path, then why not stop your whining, pull yourself up by the bootstraps, GET AN EDUCATION, and then follow your own path to socioeconomic success? You teacher-bashers could have just as easily opted to pursue your Bachelor's Degree in English, Mathematics, Biology, etc., and then pursued your teaching certification to enjoy all of these same "perks" that you currently begrudge.

What I'd like to know is why nobody whines about the multi-million dollar contracts being paid to idiotic professional athletes, many of whom possess no formal education, while even our college-educated troops valiantly serving in Baghdad are earning a FRACTION of that? Shouldn't this be a larger travesty than whining that...gasp...someone in the government is earning a COMPARABLE salary to someone in many parts of the private sector? Our school district starts educators in the low-$30k range; so do most private-sector employers who hire fresh college graduates.

CUT THE SOUR GRAPES ALREADY! IF YOU THINK THE JOB IS SO "CUSHY", THEN GO DO IT!
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Old 03-29-2008, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,219,944 times
Reputation: 35920
I agree we shouldn't b**** too much about teacher's salaries. However, your sister is making the equivalent of ~$47K for a 12 month job. I have teacher friends and I have heard all the arguments many times, e.g. that it is a 12 month job compressed into 9 mos, that teachers need to go to school in the summer, etc. However, the salary is not ridiculously low for the number of hours put in. Every professional has to keep up with the cutting edge. I am a health care professional and we have to do so as well, and work 12 months a year. You can probably see from my prior post that having all that holiday time looks good from my vantage point. But you do want your doctor and his/her nurses available on holidays and the weekends when you get sick or injured. Yes, the grass is always greener.
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Old 03-29-2008, 05:47 PM
 
Location: The Beautiful Lowcountry of SC
267 posts, read 812,682 times
Reputation: 64
Okay, had to chime in here. My husband went back to school a few years ago and got a master's and a teaching degree and there were absolutely NO prospects of him getting hired anywhere in the Western PA area because the market is so saturated. He subbed a half a year and we moved down here to South Carolina where he was hired immediately to teach kindergarten. He's starting around $35,000 a year, and he works an average of 80 hours a week - every night and every weekend. Luckily, we live a half mile from school so he's able to go up there when he can.

Yes, the teachers in PA are making big bucks and have the option to strike. My husband doesn't have that option, but he got into teaching because he wants to make a difference in children's lives. Teachers in PA don't retire because they're being paid extremely well. It's nearly impossible to get a teaching job unless you have a serious connection on a school board somewhere. And, BTW, I am a former Allegheny County employee, but I certainly never felt like I would be set for life as far as pension, salaries, etc. The complete financial mess that is occurring in Pittsburgh doesn't do much to instill confidence in people working for the county.

So, as far as my husband goes, he's earning every single penny he makes. Of course, he'll never be seeing the kind of bucks that teachers in PA do, but at least he has a job in a field he loves. Oh, yeah, plus the weather is gorgeous and we live a half hour from the beach
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Old 03-29-2008, 09:44 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,877,652 times
Reputation: 2910
Government jobs are not as isolated from the free market as some people seem to think. In particular, the government has to be able to attract and retain qualified people for the positions it needs to fill, and accordingly has to pay wages sufficient to do so. The private sector therefore serves as a guide to government wages, because if government wages fall too low, people will refuse to work for the government and head to the private sector instead.

Anyway, in the end I think these conversations tend to be fruitless, basically because some people just don't think teachers should command professional salaries, and some people have no problem with that. Speaking as a person who has no problem with that, I've never found an argument that the other side finds convincing, and vice-versa.
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Old 03-29-2008, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Erie, PA
713 posts, read 1,859,298 times
Reputation: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by zip95 View Post
The issue is that government jobs are outside of the real economy. Everyone else is subject to capitalism and market forces. Everyone else has a salary proportional to their ability and usefulness. Everyone else must compete for positions and promotions. The majority share holder, and the chairman of the board can lose everything if some one a little better comes along.

Government jobs have no accountability. Your salary is determined, not by your performance, but by your unions ability to strike. Your job security is determined by some magical status called tenure...(imagine the real economy with tenured sales people and tenured retail workers). Only a government job gives automatic raises just because you took a few classes over the summer.

So, sure, teachers are important, but that's not really the point.
Amen brother. I would say that teachers are so important that there should be real competition between them so that the best are rewarded and the worst are fired...just like in the private sector.
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Old 03-29-2008, 10:15 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,877,652 times
Reputation: 2910
By the way, I want to note that while I don't have a problem with the salaries for teachers per se, that doesn't mean I think the right people are always getting those salaries, and I do think there should be more open competition for teaching slots and also more merit-based pay in teaching. But again, whether the overall salaries are too high and whether the right people are getting those salaries are two distinct issues.
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Old 03-30-2008, 01:27 AM
 
Location: Crafton via San Francisco
3,463 posts, read 4,622,952 times
Reputation: 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
By the way, I want to note that while I don't have a problem with the salaries for teachers per se, that doesn't mean I think the right people are always getting those salaries, and I do think there should be more open competition for teaching slots and also more merit-based pay in teaching. But again, whether the overall salaries are too high and whether the right people are getting those salaries are two distinct issues.
Very well put. My sentiments exactly.
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