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I believe if the warrington ave business district continues to get better, more and more Allentown and Beltzhoover development and investment will take place. Its not going to happen overnight, but in 10 years, I think anyone buying properties in these locations will do pretty darn well. Im pretty sure the days of livable houses selling for around the same price as an average new Honda are coming to an end.
I dunno dude, I don't think Beltzhoover has much going for it. The housing stock is kinda crap, even discounting the deferred maintenance. It's mostly the typical hilltop typology of remuddled detached frame houses from around 1900. Most of the neighborhood is neither walkable to the T stop nor to the Allentown East Warrington business district. Crime really isn't that bad any longer, but that's because it's been so emptied by blight there aren't enough people left to keep the local gangs going any longer.
Nearby Knoxville has a lot more of the raw material you'd want for a neighborhood with upside potential. Absolutely beautiful homes, and good access to the Brownsville Avenue business district shared with Mt. Oliver. If some headway could be made on the drug issue I think it would start to turn around pretty quickly.
I dunno dude, I don't think Beltzhoover has much going for it. The housing stock is kinda crap, even discounting the deferred maintenance. It's mostly the typical hilltop typology of remuddled detached frame houses from around 1900. Most of the neighborhood is neither walkable to the T stop nor to the Allentown East Warrington business district. Crime really isn't that bad any longer, but that's because it's been so emptied by blight there aren't enough people left to keep the local gangs going any longer.
Nearby Knoxville has a lot more of the raw material you'd want for a neighborhood with upside potential. Absolutely beautiful homes, and good access to the Brownsville Avenue business district shared with Mt. Oliver. If some headway could be made on the drug issue I think it would start to turn around pretty quickly.
I guess the opportunity in Beltzhoover comes if enough property is acquired close to the transit areas, some sort of large development can replace the few remaining collapsing structures. May take a while for a developer to acquire enough parcels, but it’s already very patchworky in there.
I dunno dude, I don't think Beltzhoover has much going for it. The housing stock is kinda crap, even discounting the deferred maintenance. It's mostly the typical hilltop typology of remuddled detached frame houses from around 1900. Most of the neighborhood is neither walkable to the T stop nor to the Allentown East Warrington business district. Crime really isn't that bad any longer, but that's because it's been so emptied by blight there aren't enough people left to keep the local gangs going any longer.
Nearby Knoxville has a lot more of the raw material you'd want for a neighborhood with upside potential. Absolutely beautiful homes, and good access to the Brownsville Avenue business district shared with Mt. Oliver. If some headway could be made on the drug issue I think it would start to turn around pretty quickly.
I said Allentown and beltzhoover, mainly referencing the portions of the neighborhood close to warrington. Beltzhoover as a whole to become much better would require the building out of new construction all over. Today thats not a viable option as the post completed values are less than the cost. perhaps around 2030 thats a different case.
I agree Knoxville could be sort of like a friendship of the southern hilltop if the crime/drug issues could be addressed.
Nearby Knoxville has a lot more of the raw material you'd want for a neighborhood with upside potential. Absolutely beautiful homes, and good access to the Brownsville Avenue business district shared with Mt. Oliver. If some headway could be made on the drug issue I think it would start to turn around pretty quickly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jea6321
I agree Knoxville could be sort of like a friendship of the southern hilltop if the crime/drug issues could be addressed.
I adore the housing stock of Knoxville, albeit the fabulous old homes in need of TLC I love all typically have four bedrooms (too big for me). As long as it (and adjacent Carrick, Beltzhoover, and Mt. Oliver) is the epicenter of this city's opioid crisis, though, I'd never want to buy a home there. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I think Zone 3 needs to be broken up a bit more, as it is too large right now and stretched thin between the opioid crisis on the Hilltop and the "beers and bros" mess of the South Side Flats.
When I'm ready to buy I want to buy in Elliott. I'm being cautioned about this and "steered away"; however, I think Elliott is about to boom. I've now eaten at Cafe 412 several times, and the most recent time it was packed. It's a newer breakfast spot in the West End Village along South Main Street between the Zone 6 police station and the Village Trattoria. It is walkable from Elliott. I know the owners of the Lorenz Cafe in Elliott, and their long-range plans include turning the place from just being a smoky dungeon dive bar to also a feature a big patio with food. Then there's the overlook, which is just fabulous.
Oh, and to steer this thread back on topic? Yes. I very much believe large swaths of the East End are in a housing bubble right now. We're seeing people buying homes, putting in minimal improvements, and then reselling these homes for a much higher price point just a few years later. I can't envision pricing in most of these neighborhoods being able to go that much higher.
I adore the housing stock of Knoxville, albeit the fabulous old homes in need of TLC I love all typically have four bedrooms (too big for me). As long as it (and adjacent Carrick, Beltzhoover, and Mt. Oliver) is the epicenter of this city's opioid crisis, though, I'd never want to buy a home there. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I think Zone 3 needs to be broken up a bit more, as it is too large right now and stretched thin between the opioid crisis on the Hilltop and the "beers and bros" mess of the South Side Flats.
When I'm ready to buy I want to buy in Elliott. I'm being cautioned about this and "steered away"; however, I think Elliott is about to boom. I've now eaten at Cafe 412 several times, and the most recent time it was packed. It's a newer breakfast spot in the West End Village along South Main Street between the Zone 6 police station and the Village Trattoria. It is walkable from Elliott. I know the owners of the Lorenz Cafe in Elliott, and their long-range plans include turning the place from just being a smoky dungeon dive bar to also a feature a big patio with food. Then there's the overlook, which is just fabulous.
Oh, and to steer this thread back on topic? Yes. I very much believe large swaths of the East End are in a housing bubble right now. We're seeing people buying homes, putting in minimal improvements, and then reselling these homes for a much higher price point just a few years later. I can't envision pricing in most of these neighborhoods being able to go that much higher.
yes to buying in Elliot. Don't let others scare you on it. You can get a decent house thats livable for very affordable prices. I don't believe you will see crazy appreciation, but you also mention all the time that you are not concerned with that anyways. You will live very cheap and its not nearly as bad as some make it out to be.
even if the east end is pricey, Bubble would imply its going to pop and prices will fall considerably. Im not holding my breath on that one. Perhaps it stagnates for a while, but I for one would be shocked if we saw a double digit % decrease in any of the popular east end locations.
When I'm ready to buy I want to buy in Elliott. I'm being cautioned about this and "steered away"; however, I think Elliott is about to boom. I've now eaten at Cafe 412 several times, and the most recent time it was packed. It's a newer breakfast spot in the West End Village along South Main Street between the Zone 6 police station and the Village Trattoria. It is walkable from Elliott. I know the owners of the Lorenz Cafe in Elliott, and their long-range plans include turning the place from just being a smoky dungeon dive bar to also a feature a big patio with food. Then there's the overlook, which is just fabulous.
Saying Elliott is ready to pop is a little too much in my opinion. It's definitely a lot less dangerous than people believe it is however, and one of the few non-ghetto city neighborhoods left where you can get a habitable house at a rock-bottom price.
Most neighborhoods which take off have one of two things though: Appealing housing stock, or a functional business district. Elliott has neither one. Though if you get a house close enough to the West End, the latter doesn't matter so much.
Saying Elliott is ready to pop is a little too much in my opinion. It's definitely a lot less dangerous than people believe it is however, and one of the few non-ghetto city neighborhoods left where you can get a habitable house at a rock-bottom price.
Most neighborhoods which take off have one of two things though: Appealing housing stock, or a functional business district. Elliott has neither one. Though if you get a house close enough to the West End, the latter doesn't matter so much.
Elliott isn't dangerous at all. There have been some SWAT situations there in recent years, but those are isolated incidents---not ones that the general public needs to be concerned about. There are more vehicle break-ins in Point Breeze and Squirrel Hill.
"Appealing housing stock" is in the eyes of the beholder. Most would agree that a large chunk of the housing stock in both Bloomfield and Polish Hill is complete garbage; however, both neighborhoods have seen a ton of flipping activity lately. For someone like me buying a starter home that's livable for $50,000-$75,000 is quite appealing, actually.
All of Elliott is walkable to the West End assuming one is not elderly/disabled---or just lazy. You have the public steps on Planet Street. There's also a dollar store, convenience store, and two divey bar/food joints. Polish Hill only has a hipster coffeeshop and then useless businesses for day-to-day needs like a records store, comic book store, offices, and smoky cliquey dive bars, yet that hasn't stopped rents here from going bonkers despite the long walk for us to shop/dine in Bloomfield, Lawrenceville, Oakland, Shadyside, or the Strip.
Elliott isn't dangerous at all. There have been some SWAT situations there in recent years, but those are isolated incidents---not ones that the general public needs to be concerned about. There are more vehicle break-ins in Point Breeze and Squirrel Hill.
I was thinking more about drugs than anything. But yeah, I wouldn't call anything in the Greater West End - except for Sheraden and a tiny portion of Crafton Heights - dangerous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising
"Appealing housing stock" is in the eyes of the beholder. Most would agree that a large chunk of the housing stock in both Bloomfield and Polish Hill is complete garbage; however, both neighborhoods have seen a ton of flipping activity lately. For someone like me buying a starter home that's livable for $50,000-$75,000 is quite appealing, actually.
All of Elliott is walkable to the West End assuming one is not elderly/disabled---or just lazy. You have the public steps on Planet Street. There's also a dollar store, convenience store, and two divey bar/food joints. Polish Hill only has a hipster coffeeshop and then useless businesses for day-to-day needs like a records store, comic book store, offices, and smoky cliquey dive bars, yet that hasn't stopped rents here from going bonkers despite the long walk for us to shop/dine in Bloomfield, Lawrenceville, Oakland, Shadyside, or the Strip.
As we've discussed before, you have a very different idea of walkable than most people. There have been studies that have shown the average person - if they own a car - will not walk more than 10 minutes to get to a business. Any longer than that and they will drive.
Polish Hill certainly doesn't have a full-service business district. However, it has the bare minimum in terms of "third spaces" for people to hang out in when they're neither at work nor home - a coffeeshop (with some decent and cheap food!) and a couple of bars. It's not like a neighborhood of 1,000 people could support more than that.
Elliott certainly could support a bit more business if the neighborhood had more of a diversity of income. But I haven't really heard even a whiff of talk about things changing for the better there. I hear more people talking up Beechview or Spring Hill, and both of them have a long, long way to go.
I think the sketchy parts of the North Side will stabilize and improve before the West End, if any of these areas improve. The North Side has an identity and some momentum. A lot of people don't even know there is a West End! Seriously, mention the West End to some people and see how puzzled they act. I'm not sure if the West End is still in decline or just stagnant. It seems to be about the same now as it was ten years ago. Hopefully, it can hold its own and not go into free fall. I love Elliott. It is one of the hidden gems of the city. I would buy a house there in a heartbeat. I just never found one I liked. Most have been severely remuddled.
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