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Old 08-19-2018, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
387 posts, read 466,310 times
Reputation: 450

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Wood_Lake,
Let me break it down, because I wasn't speaking of being fake in terms of tipping waitstaff, I could care less, if I don't like their service, my pocket book always votes. That's just common sense. I was speaking to every day interactions within Pittsburgh.


One of your issues, the *most profound* issue in my opinion, is that you are 1 person, surrounded by a population of people that doesn't share your same degree of 'comfort' in interacting. You need to understand that the numbers of us are larger, & as such, it is you that will need to adapt, or not, in order to find your happy medium.


People are guarded FOR A REASON.
Eschaton put it about as perfect as you could get it.
Read & re-read until it sinks in.


This is a fact of life here, & in most places in the world.


The degree in which you need to be aware of it changes from place to place, but the song remains the same.
Inner city neighborhoods with larger population will have more predatory type interactions, it is the nature of the beast.
There are more scammers/weirdos/undesirable types in higher density areas, it's a numbers game.


If you still believe that every person approaching you for 'friendly pleasantries' is just being friendly, I can't make you take off the rose colored glasses.


While I do not disagree that southern hospitality in many southern places is much higher than Pittsburgh, I think you are leaning towards more 'nostalgic' rather that actually reality based.
What I am saying is this:


I think you are homesick & should probably take a trip back home, get a fix, get your thoughts together. Then come up with a plan, *after* you have cleared your head.
It seems there are other issues underlying your perception of Pittsburgh & it's 'rudeness'.


You say you moved here for your wife's employment. So maybe this move was a choice based upon financial necessity?
You live in a tough neighborhood because the rent is cheap, which also leads me to believe the move was based on financial issues.
Maybe you & she can figure out a way to work that out-because to me, without my filter, it seems there's some resentment & unbalance to the decision made to move to Pittsburgh. If that's the case, & it's a temporary fix until the 2 of you get back to stable, work towards of 2-5 year goal for where you both want to be. Don't buy a house here, put in lots of resumes for places you'd rather live, or rent in a more friendly community oriented neighborhood if you both plan to stay. You could work more hours to save money faster, lessening the burden.


Plenty of southern towns are downright awful to outsiders. This certainly applies to us northerners LOL.
Much of the issues here are getting off topic to your original inquiry.


Much of this issue is your perception & your unrealistic expectations on the population surrounding you.
You've gotta face things if you want them to change, & the change must begin within yourself 1st.


You don't need to put on the air of feeling sorry for us, by saying condescending/passive aggressive things like:
"I find it unfortunate that Pittsburghers view a simple polite interaction as something that isn't real. "


You see, Pittsburghers are fine, & most of us are happy here. We don't need your pity, masked in a sentence that insults us.
You have the problem, not us, so you need to figure it out.
You've said plenty for us to get the gist of the situation at hand, it appears you had little choice in the decision to move here. You alone have the ability to change that, & make it whatever you want it to be.


Most people, when unhappy, feel motivated to change. It is the healthier reaction.


Please don't take my words & twist them out of context, to suit your needs-all that does is create drama.


If you actually want a solution, instead of drama making & insulting Pittsburghers, you must consider that the problem lies within yourself.
This is not about me being defensive, it's about a fact that I said things that were clear, but you chose to distort it.
That was your choice. You choose to see things the way you do. It does not make them a reality.


If you change the way you think about a situation, the situation will change.
It's time for you to look at yourself, your perceptions, & opinions, & stop expecting the culturally embedded population to bend to you.


Get a job where you are not solely dependent just on your wife's income for your place of residence, & you will have more choices.


Pittsburghers culture & reactions are mostly for a reason, & because it is what works for us as best it can, in our time in the here & now.
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Old 08-19-2018, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
6,327 posts, read 9,101,134 times
Reputation: 4048
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Buster View Post
I find the comments from a few who consider cities like NY and Philly to be more racially integrated, pretty laughable. Its a tourist's view IMO, and maybe eixsts in pockets like central Manhattan and Center City, etc, but does not at all flow out to the other areas in most cases. Its probably just a function of there being more racial diversity and wealth in those areas. Pittsburgh is not really different, but its on a smaller scale. How about Baltimore, no mention of it? Its the closest peer city to Pittsburgh that's on the coast, and its technically southern. Racially integrated, not so much.
Yeah, the idea that the Philly area is pretty racially integrated is laughable to me too. The racial demographics of the outlying counties compared to Philadelphia are night and day.
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Old 08-19-2018, 04:58 PM
 
141 posts, read 139,263 times
Reputation: 290
Well that post from Catia was just plain rude and uncalled for and a prime example of what I am talking about.
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Old 08-19-2018, 05:23 PM
 
5,894 posts, read 6,842,546 times
Reputation: 4107
Quote:
Originally Posted by wood_lake View Post
In Raleigh I've had strangers ask me how I was doing in the middle of Walmart or I've engaged in many conversations with strangers next to me during dinner.
I would find that incredible weird. I’m shopping to shop & get that done with as soon as possible. Likewise, if I’m out to dinner I’m there primarily to eat & enjoy the company of those I’m dining with. In neither situation do I want strangers to interject themselves nor would I interrupt people to have a chat they likely don’t want either.
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Old 08-19-2018, 05:53 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,098 times
Reputation: 10
You can’t soley base “kindness” off of if someone smiles and waves to you, especially when this is based on cultural norms. I’ve always thought people here did smile and wave and ask how I’m doing, but apparently not to the same extent as in the south. This does not mean northerners are more rude. It’s just cultural differences.

We traveled to Iceland this summer, and were told how friendly the people were. But we felt a lot like how you are feeling. The people seemed stand offish. But we then came to realize that it’s just the cultural norm. The people were friendly, but they didn’t have to be over the top like we are here in the states. Neither way is right or wrong, in my opinion. They were just more reserved and showed kindness in other ways.

Kindness is better judged by actions, and I’m confident that the majority of pittsburghers would jump in and offer a helping hand to anyone in need. I’ve Had people give me money for gas when I forgot my wallet. Just last week I was driving and got a flat tire. A guy ran out into the street to help my wife and I. Yes there are *******s, but I’m sure a lot of people would be willing to help out others, within reason.
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Old 08-19-2018, 06:34 PM
 
6,295 posts, read 11,007,815 times
Reputation: 3085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timd487 View Post
You can’t soley base “kindness” off of if someone smiles and waves to you, especially when this is based on cultural norms. I’ve always thought people here did smile and wave and ask how I’m doing, but apparently not to the same extent as in the south. This does not mean northerners are more rude. It’s just cultural differences.

We traveled to Iceland this summer, and were told how friendly the people were. But we felt a lot like how you are feeling. The people seemed stand offish. But we then came to realize that it’s just the cultural norm. The people were friendly, but they didn’t have to be over the top like we are here in the states. Neither way is right or wrong, in my opinion. They were just more reserved and showed kindness in other ways.

Kindness is better judged by actions, and I’m confident that the majority of pittsburghers would jump in and offer a helping hand to anyone in need. I’ve Had people give me money for gas when I forgot my wallet. Just last week I was driving and got a flat tire. A guy ran out into the street to help my wife and I. Yes there are *******s, but I’m sure a lot of people would be willing to help out others, within reason.
This pretty much sums it up. Pittsburgh is more of a Northeastern city and not Midwestern contrary to some twisted views. And this is one of the cultural distinctions between the Northeast and some other ares of the country. People are less overtly friendly and a little more reserved when dealing with people that are unfamiliar. I don't consider that rude it is simply a different culture that we're accustomed to.

The point about Iceland is also well taken. My Mother's side of the family is mostly from Sweden and also some of the other Scandinavian countries. People are more reserved in those places than many other countries. Not rude of course but just a little more laid back and less in your face. One of the aspects I genuinely dislike about some areas of the lower Midwest region is that some people really like to get into your personal space and face and that kind of fake "friendliness" may be acceptable to people in that part of the country where they live, but in many places, that kind of behavior would be considered rude.

I don't have an issue at all with the friendliness many people in the South exhibit. Used to it since I had a number of friends from the South while growing up in CT and also I have traveled down there to some extent in the 80's. Just a different culture and lifestyle and nothing more than that.
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Old 08-19-2018, 06:35 PM
 
1,524 posts, read 1,293,683 times
Reputation: 1361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catia View Post
Wood_Lake,
Let me break it down, because I wasn't speaking of being fake in terms of tipping waitstaff, I could care less, if I don't like their service, my pocket book always votes. That's just common sense. I was speaking to every day interactions within Pittsburgh.


One of your issues, the *most profound* issue in my opinion, is that you are 1 person, surrounded by a population of people that doesn't share your same degree of 'comfort' in interacting. You need to understand that the numbers of us are larger, & as such, it is you that will need to adapt, or not, in order to find your happy medium.


People are guarded FOR A REASON.
Eschaton put it about as perfect as you could get it.
Read & re-read until it sinks in.


This is a fact of life here, & in most places in the world.


The degree in which you need to be aware of it changes from place to place, but the song remains the same.
Inner city neighborhoods with larger population will have more predatory type interactions, it is the nature of the beast.
There are more scammers/weirdos/undesirable types in higher density areas, it's a numbers game.


If you still believe that every person approaching you for 'friendly pleasantries' is just being friendly, I can't make you take off the rose colored glasses.


While I do not disagree that southern hospitality in many southern places is much higher than Pittsburgh, I think you are leaning towards more 'nostalgic' rather that actually reality based.
What I am saying is this:


I think you are homesick & should probably take a trip back home, get a fix, get your thoughts together. Then come up with a plan, *after* you have cleared your head.
It seems there are other issues underlying your perception of Pittsburgh & it's 'rudeness'.


You say you moved here for your wife's employment. So maybe this move was a choice based upon financial necessity?
You live in a tough neighborhood because the rent is cheap, which also leads me to believe the move was based on financial issues.
Maybe you & she can figure out a way to work that out-because to me, without my filter, it seems there's some resentment & unbalance to the decision made to move to Pittsburgh. If that's the case, & it's a temporary fix until the 2 of you get back to stable, work towards of 2-5 year goal for where you both want to be. Don't buy a house here, put in lots of resumes for places you'd rather live, or rent in a more friendly community oriented neighborhood if you both plan to stay. You could work more hours to save money faster, lessening the burden.


Plenty of southern towns are downright awful to outsiders. This certainly applies to us northerners LOL.
Much of the issues here are getting off topic to your original inquiry.


Much of this issue is your perception & your unrealistic expectations on the population surrounding you.
You've gotta face things if you want them to change, & the change must begin within yourself 1st.


You don't need to put on the air of feeling sorry for us, by saying condescending/passive aggressive things like:
"I find it unfortunate that Pittsburghers view a simple polite interaction as something that isn't real. "


You see, Pittsburghers are fine, & most of us are happy here. We don't need your pity, masked in a sentence that insults us.
You have the problem, not us, so you need to figure it out.
You've said plenty for us to get the gist of the situation at hand, it appears you had little choice in the decision to move here. You alone have the ability to change that, & make it whatever you want it to be.


Most people, when unhappy, feel motivated to change. It is the healthier reaction.


Please don't take my words & twist them out of context, to suit your needs-all that does is create drama.


If you actually want a solution, instead of drama making & insulting Pittsburghers, you must consider that the problem lies within yourself.
This is not about me being defensive, it's about a fact that I said things that were clear, but you chose to distort it.
That was your choice. You choose to see things the way you do. It does not make them a reality.


If you change the way you think about a situation, the situation will change.
It's time for you to look at yourself, your perceptions, & opinions, & stop expecting the culturally embedded population to bend to you.


Get a job where you are not solely dependent just on your wife's income for your place of residence, & you will have more choices.


Pittsburghers culture & reactions are mostly for a reason, & because it is what works for us as best it can, in our time in the here & now.
Very good, thoughtful, polite but honest post.
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,219,944 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timd487 View Post
You can’t soley base “kindness” off of if someone smiles and waves to you, especially when this is based on cultural norms. I’ve always thought people here did smile and wave and ask how I’m doing, but apparently not to the same extent as in the south. This does not mean northerners are more rude. It’s just cultural differences.

We traveled to Iceland this summer, and were told how friendly the people were. But we felt a lot like how you are feeling. The people seemed stand offish. But we then came to realize that it’s just the cultural norm. The people were friendly, but they didn’t have to be over the top like we are here in the states. Neither way is right or wrong, in my opinion. They were just more reserved and showed kindness in other ways.

Kindness is better judged by actions, and I’m confident that the majority of pittsburghers would jump in and offer a helping hand to anyone in need. I’ve Had people give me money for gas when I forgot my wallet. Just last week I was driving and got a flat tire. A guy ran out into the street to help my wife and I. Yes there are *******s, but I’m sure a lot of people would be willing to help out others, within reason.
I have a story to add to that. W-a-a-a-y back in 2004, the University of Nebraska played Pitt in Pittsburgh. Any of you who remember this will recall a big flood, with water on the streets in the downtown area. A lot of the Nebraskans were staying in hotels downtown, and they talked about how nice the Pittsburghers were as everyone helped to sandbag the hotels so the interiors wouldn't flood. (This as opposed to the way they were treated at Penn State, BTW.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PGH423 View Post
Very good, thoughtful, polite but honest post.
Ya think? I don't think telling people
"You say you moved here for your wife's employment. So maybe this move was a choice based upon financial necessity?
You live in a tough neighborhood because the rent is cheap, which also leads me to believe the move was based on financial issues.
Maybe you & she can figure out a way to work that out-because to me, without my filter, it seems there's some resentment & unbalance to the decision made to move to Pittsburgh. If that's the case, & it's a temporary fix until the 2 of you get back to stable, work towards of 2-5 year goal for where you both want to be. Don't buy a house here, put in lots of resumes for places you'd rather live, or rent in a more friendly community oriented neighborhood if you both plan to stay. You could work more hours to save money faster, lessening the burden."
And "If you actually want a solution, instead of drama making & insulting Pittsburghers, you must consider that the problem lies within yourself.
This is not about me being defensive, it's about a fact that I said things that were clear, but you chose to distort it.
That was your choice. You choose to see things the way you do. It does not make them a reality."
And "If you change the way you think about a situation, the situation will change.
It's time for you to look at yourself, your perceptions, & opinions, & stop expecting the culturally embedded population to bend to you.
Get a job where you are not solely dependent just on your wife's income for your place of residence, & you will have more choices."


is at all polite.

The OP did not ask for career advice, nor marital advice. The bold is a lecture.
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:40 PM
 
3,291 posts, read 2,741,534 times
Reputation: 3375
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKyank View Post
I would find that incredible weird. I’m shopping to shop & get that done with as soon as possible. Likewise, if I’m out to dinner I’m there primarily to eat & enjoy the company of those I’m dining with. In neither situation do I want strangers to interject themselves nor would I interrupt people to have a chat they likely don’t want either.

In a store like Walmart, definitely weird. At dinner it might not be so weird, depending. If eating at the bar for example, or some restaurants in the city which have very close seating where you basically hear everyone's conversations around you. There was a restaurant trend not long ago which was based on "social dining", eating with randoms at the same long table. Not surprisingly this didn't last long but still some people like it.
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Old 08-20-2018, 06:26 AM
 
1,524 posts, read 1,293,683 times
Reputation: 1361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
I have a story to add to that. W-a-a-a-y back in 2004, the University of Nebraska played Pitt in Pittsburgh. Any of you who remember this will recall a big flood, with water on the streets in the downtown area. A lot of the Nebraskans were staying in hotels downtown, and they talked about how nice the Pittsburghers were as everyone helped to sandbag the hotels so the interiors wouldn't flood. (This as opposed to the way they were treated at Penn State, BTW.)



Ya think? I don't think telling people
"You say you moved here for your wife's employment. So maybe this move was a choice based upon financial necessity?
You live in a tough neighborhood because the rent is cheap, which also leads me to believe the move was based on financial issues.
Maybe you & she can figure out a way to work that out-because to me, without my filter, it seems there's some resentment & unbalance to the decision made to move to Pittsburgh. If that's the case, & it's a temporary fix until the 2 of you get back to stable, work towards of 2-5 year goal for where you both want to be. Don't buy a house here, put in lots of resumes for places you'd rather live, or rent in a more friendly community oriented neighborhood if you both plan to stay. You could work more hours to save money faster, lessening the burden."
And "If you actually want a solution, instead of drama making & insulting Pittsburghers, you must consider that the problem lies within yourself.
This is not about me being defensive, it's about a fact that I said things that were clear, but you chose to distort it.
That was your choice. You choose to see things the way you do. It does not make them a reality."
And "If you change the way you think about a situation, the situation will change.
It's time for you to look at yourself, your perceptions, & opinions, & stop expecting the culturally embedded population to bend to you.
Get a job where you are not solely dependent just on your wife's income for your place of residence, & you will have more choices."


is at all polite.

The OP did not ask for career advice, nor marital advice. The bold is a lecture.
What exactly did the OP ask for? Just an explanation as to why Pittsburghers are "extrememly rude"? Then why attack every explanation? It looks more like the OP wants people to apologize to him for the way people have "victimized" him and join him on a crusade to change the entire culture. He's not going to get that. So he's going to be equally unhappy with the next 8 pages of replies.

I think there is a lot of blunt wisdom in Catia's reply without any cruelty. Catia made it clear when she was making conjectures.
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