Allentown residents protesting today for restoration of T line. (Liberty: neighborhoods, university)

[Plink]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

The first link provided at that website does not explain why this is an advantage. The presentation is lovely, definitely, but it is based on a study from 1993.

I posted a link to the study for the t to the strip here. I don’t have much time to find sources and suggest you do your own research if interested. Btw, anything in public papers are inaccessible now as the sum lot of them now want paid.

[PghYinzer]

Zero chance of a T line to Oakland ever. They are building a BRT line between downtown and parts of the East End.

[Catia]

Originally Posted by Plink

It’s not just trips between downtown to Oakland. It’s trips from south hills to Oakland, for example. North side to Oakland. And on and on. Value capture indicates there can be a win win for property owners.

Pittsburgh needs what I mentioned to attract outside investment and increase density. I believe it is about much more than “realistic” assessments of ridership in a current state, which is the opposite of visionary leadership.

OK, like the Pittsburgher I am, I'm just gonna say it:
Pittsburgh doesn't 'need' any of that.
I'm not on board with needing to attract outside investment & increasing Pittsburgh's density.
That's not a part of my 'realistic assessment'.
I'd prefer investment from within, keeping the people we have, & have their kids stay after college.
Personally, I don't want my property value to skyrocket, because my taxes skyrocket along with it.
Not everyone is so happy to sell & move because their property value goes up. I'd rather have stronger community, than a bunch of homogenized outsiders telling me what's best & pricing me out.

[_Buster]

T to the Strip would be pretty good, and I would think relatively inexpensive. With the proximity and all of the development there it seems to make sense. Oakland is another matter. Alhtough its booming, they already chose BRT instead, and the train would be much pricier - never gonna happen without huge federal grant.

[Goinback2011]

An Oakland T route would just move commuters off of busses and onto trains.

[szug-bot]

Originally Posted by Plink

It’s not just trips between downtown to Oakland. It’s trips from south hills to Oakland, for example. North side to Oakland. And on and on. Value capture indicates there can be a win win for property owners.

Pittsburgh needs what I mentioned to attract outside investment and increase density. I believe it is about much more than “realistic” assessments of ridership in a current state, which is the opposite of visionary leadership.

But most in the industry of transportation planning and engineering would probably tell you otherwise. The paradigm we know - bus, subway/surface rail, and personal vehicle - is changing. Do I dare bring up a sharp increase in ped-centered, revitalized neighborhoods in cities across the US and Canada?

Also, there is the strong possibility of decreased use of personal vehicles for rush hour traffic, as more people use telecommunications for education, business matters, even health care.

Our "way" of personal travel is changing, albeit slowly.

Yes, what I am suggesting is hypothetical, but I believe all this to be true from what I have read, heard and learned through my years in the civil engineering field. I am not now and almost (ALMOST) would never be for spending money in Pennsylvania on light rail.

[_Buster]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

But most in the industry of transportation planning and engineering would probably tell you otherwise. The paradigm we know - bus, subway/surface rail, and personal vehicle - is changing. Do I dare bring up a sharp increase in ped-centered, revitalized neighborhoods in cities across the US and Canada?

Also, there is the strong possibility of decreased use of personal vehicles for rush hour traffic, as more people use telecommunications for education, business matters, even health care.

Our "way" of personal travel is changing, albeit slowly.

Yes, what I am suggesting is hypothetical, but I believe all this to be true from what I have read, heard and learned through my years in the civil engineering field. I am not now and almost (ALMOST) would never be for spending money in Pennsylvania on light rail.

Does this include not to the Strip? Other people are advocating to the airport but I really don't see that happening and don't think its worth discussing without any plan. But the Strip it would seem is an easy extension that would be good for business and residents. And it could get people close enough to lower Lawrenceville to use that too.

[SteelCityRising]

As others have said the BRT will eliminate the need for a very expensive multi-billion dollar “T” line from Downtown to the East End via Oakland.

A “T” line to the airport would also be cost-prohibitive. I also don’t know if we’re in the economic condition to conduct an experiment to expand a “T” line to Allentown in hopes that the cool trains chugging on by will turn Warrington Avenue into Butler Street.

I DO, however, think a short “T” spur to the Strip is essential going forward. There are literally many hundreds of apartments and condos either being built or currently under development. Thousands of people work in the Strip. As tyovan4 has complained recently the 31st Street Bridge now fully backs up at rush-hour, and I witnessed this firsthand last week while walking home from a stroll at Washington’s Landing. If Amazon DOES choose Pittsburgh they’d likely prefer the Strip or the Civic Arena site over Hazelwood. The city is currently doing a “road diet” of Smallman Street, and according to Chief of Staff Dan Gilman PennDOT is planning to narrow Liberty Avenue to one lane of traffic in each direction in the coming next few years. With all the buses going up and down Liberty Avenue that road diet will make Liberty Avenue extremely congested. As a pedestrian who is regularly almost hit up and down Liberty Avenue I welcome the road diet, but I’d much prefer to have it accompanied by the replacement of some of the bus lines with a “T” line going up the middle of the two traffic lanes.

[PghYinzer]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

As others have said the BRT will eliminate the need for a very expensive multi-billion dollar “T” line from Downtown to the East End via Oakland.

A “T” line to the airport would also be cost-prohibitive. I also don’t know if we’re in the economic condition to conduct an experiment to expand a “T” line to Allentown in hopes that the cool trains chugging on by will turn Warrington Avenue into Butler Street.

I DO, however, think a short “T” spur to the Strip is essential going forward. There are literally many hundreds of apartments and condos either being built or currently under development. Thousands of people work in the Strip. As tyovan4 has complained recently the 31st Street Bridge now fully backs up at rush-hour, and I witnessed this firsthand last week while walking home from a stroll at Washington’s Landing. If Amazon DOES choose Pittsburgh they’d likely prefer the Strip or the Civic Arena site over Hazelwood. The city is currently doing a “road diet” of Smallman Street, and according to Chief of Staff Dan Gilman PennDOT is planning to narrow Liberty Avenue to one lane of traffic in each direction in the coming next few years. With all the buses going up and down Liberty Avenue that road diet will make Liberty Avenue extremely congested. As a pedestrian who is regularly almost hit up and down Liberty Avenue I welcome the road diet, but I’d much prefer to have it accompanied by the replacement of some of the bus lines with a “T” line going up the middle of the two traffic lanes.

Why would one T line be a good replacement for multiple bus lines that run thru the area? Again I think this has more to do with people thinking the T is classier than a bus. I am against the county dumping millions into something just so people feel better about their public transportation image. People either care about easy of travel and consuming less than if you drove yourself which both a bus and a T car can provide, or you care about some notion that one is better than the other. The T costs more to build AND ride, so why not just take the bus?

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by PghYinzer

Why would one T line be a good replacement for multiple bus lines that run thru the area? Again I think this has more to do with people thinking the T is classier than a bus. I am against the county dumping millions into something just so people feel better about their public transportation image. People either care about easy of travel and consuming less than if you drove yourself which both a bus and a T car can provide, or you care about some notion that one is better than the other. The T costs more to build AND ride, so why not just take the bus?

Perhaps you misunderstood where I said Liberty Avenue will be one lane in each direction through the Strip with a center “suicide”—errrr...”turning” lane? Imagine driving on Liberty Avenue and being stuck behind several buses stopping at nearly every block with no way to pass them. As such I’d prefer one travel lane in each direction for Liberty Avenue complemented by the middle lane either being a rush-hour reversible BRT lane OR a “T” line lane. Liberty Avenue is only going to become MORE congested in the coming years with more people and employers moving there. I think PennDOT is insane to propose one wide lane in each direction with a center suicide lane.

How would you reconfigure Liberty Avenue? The current set-up is unacceptable with two high-speed lanes in each direction that are VERY narrow. I witness people drifting over their lane lines daily. As a pedestrian I say a prayer every time I have to cross 16th at Liberty. There is automotive debris all over the sidewalks. Traffic would back up a mile in each direction at rush hour, however, if we shifted to one lane in each direction with buses stopping every block, OR we’d have a ton of head-on collisions as impatient motorists in opposing directions proceeded to use the center “suicide lane” to duck around buses.