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Old 04-16-2008, 11:56 AM
 
357 posts, read 885,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
Sure. What I more have in mind is someone like a recent graduate from college or professional school who is coming to Pittsburgh to work in one of the Downtown offices.
Ok. That wasn't clear in the previous post.

Quote:
As an aside, I don't think it is quite right to say Downtown is isolated from the rest of the city.
Downtown is surrounded on all sides by rivers or the Crosstown Blvd. and the Hill. Compare that to, say, Oakland which is much closer to and better integrated with the residential, retail, and recreation areas of the East End...
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:27 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,877,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrapp View Post
Ok. That wasn't clear in the previous post.
To clarify, when I previously wrote, "Downtown would be a logical first place for people coming from out of town to live if they were going to be working Downtown", I did not mean that exclusively, and did not mean to imply that Downtown would be the most suitable place for every such person.

Quote:
Downtown is surrounded on all sides by rivers or the Crosstown Blvd. and the Hill. Compare that to, say, Oakland which is much closer to and better integrated with the residential, retail, and recreation areas of the East End...
It is certainly true that Oakland is closer to much of the East End, although the Busway provides express service from Downtown to many East End areas. And, of course, being farther east also puts Oakland farther from, say, the North Shore or The Strip. The South Side is pretty much a wash, with Downtown on one end and Oakland on the other.

Interestingly, like Downtown, Oakland is also defined by geography, and ends up with a roughly similar triangular shape. The Hill to the north and the Mon to the south converge to form the west corner of Oakland (where Fifth, Forbes, the Boulevard of the Allies, Second Avenue, and the Parkway all end up in close proximity as they run in the narrow area between the Hill and the Mon).

On the east, there is a ravine separating Oakland from Squirrel Hill, and another ravine separating Oakland from Bloomfield, both of which require bridges to cross. For example, both Baum and Forbes go over bridges to cross their respective ravines. And of course there is the Bloomfield Bridge, as well as two bridges crossing from Oakland over to Schenley Park (that south ravine is Panther Hollow).

The one area in the east where you don't need to cross a bridge to get out of Oakland is the border with Shadyside (e.g., neither Centre nor Fifth cross bridges). And that area is basically the same width as the width between Downtown and the Strip and Downtown and the Bluff (where Duquesne is located) combined.

So, there are really some remarkable similarities between Oakland and Downtown with respect to geography, and I think in total they are pretty much equally separated by geography from the surrounding areas. Of course the rivers coming together at the Confluence creates a bit more dramatic scene.
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Old 04-16-2008, 01:56 PM
 
357 posts, read 885,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
So, there are really some remarkable similarities between Oakland and Downtown with respect to geography, and I think in total they are pretty much equally separated by geography from the surrounding areas. Of course the rivers coming together at the Confluence creates a bit more dramatic scene.
Sure, that's a valid way to look at it. Thinking about it, I guess I tend to view Oakland as part of a larger vibrant East End area that includes Shadyside, Squirrel Hill, newer bits of East Liberty, and parts of Point Breeze. So I wouldn't have thought of the boundaries in the same way you have. I don't think of Uptown or The Hill as being part of Downtown.
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Old 04-16-2008, 02:20 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,877,652 times
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Originally Posted by scrapp View Post
Sure, that's a valid way to look at it. Thinking about it, I guess I tend to view Oakland as part of a larger vibrant East End area that includes Shadyside, Squirrel Hill, newer bits of East Liberty, and parts of Point Breeze. So I wouldn't have thought of the boundaries in the same way you have.
I would also say Oakland is part of the East End. But the thing about the East End is that it actually has a pretty complicated geography, which is part of why it has so many distinct neighborhoods. For example, as I noted Shadyside is indeed physically continuous with Oakland, but Squirrel Hill is actually on the other side of a complex maze of ravines (the Panther Hollow system). And rather than trying to develop that area into residential communities, it was turned into Schenley Park, and a bit was used for CMU. So, physically the Panther Hollow system is actually a much more significant barrier between Oakland and Squirrel Hill than, say, the Al is between Downtown and the North Shore.

Anyway, all that is why I think it is fair to note that while Oakland is indeed part of the East End, Downtown is part of a different set of neighborhoods, including the North Shore and the Strip (again with the South Side being more or less equally convenient to both). And when you add up all the attractions in this set of neighborhoods, you get a pretty impressive list of stuff within walking distance of Downtown.

Quote:
I don't think of Uptown or The Hill as being part of Downtown.
Nor do I. But again, if you are not just talking about Oakland proper but also the greater set of neighborhoods of which Oakland is a part, then I think it makes sense to talk about not just Downtown proper but also the greater set of neighborhoods of which Downtown is a part.
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Old 04-16-2008, 02:26 PM
 
357 posts, read 885,475 times
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Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
IBut the thing about the East End is that it actually has a pretty complicated geography, which is part of why it has so many distinct neighborhoods.
I would say that the whole of Pittsburgh has as pretty complicated geography! I better leave it at that, as I don't think I can keep up with your rate of posting.
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Old 04-16-2008, 02:46 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,877,652 times
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Originally Posted by scrapp View Post
I would say that the whole of Pittsburgh has as pretty complicated geography! I better leave it at that, as I don't think I can keep up with your rate of posting.
Hah! Yes, I tend to be prolific.

Anyway, you are absolutely right: in general, Pittsburgh's complicated geography is why it has so many neighborhoods. The East End actually exists as something of a unit because it had enough level areas to string together communities along streetcar and railroad lines, and those communities were developed as "streetcar suburbs" up until around WWII. In the subsequent automobile era, those former strings of "streetcar suburbs" became the various neighborhoods in the East End.
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Old 04-16-2008, 02:58 PM
 
3 posts, read 23,280 times
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I agree that it's difficult to get a teaching position in Pgh. At the same time, I graduated with several girls who all got elementary teaching positions at high-paying schools around Pittsburgh (Mt. Lebanon, Baldwin, etc.), so it's not impossible. Two of the girls had nearly a 4.0 in college, so that definitely helped, but they didn't get their jobs because they knew someone...
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