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The population will increase by exactly 1 person if I move there. :-). But that is contingent upon nobody else moving out that day.
Since I currently live in the Cincinnati area and see the growth taking place here, I think I would attribute the lack of population increases in your area to the terrain. It is difficult to build in those hills which limits the amount of developable land for developers. Being from Connecticut we have the same problem and it drives up prices for land. Granted Western PA is quite affordable by comparison but that limited amount of space to build is a real impediment to getting housing and businesses into the area unless they are willing to buy existing housing stock or commercial buildings.
End result? Static population growth.
The Cincinnati metro area is flatter once you get outside of the city on the Ohio side. KY is hilly much like the city and that discouraged growth for years. Outer suburbs on the OH side with flatter terrain are seeing growth and also many of the KY counties across the river since there is still developable land due to the lack of development in past history.
The population will increase by exactly 1 person if I move there. :-). But that is contingent upon nobody else moving out that day.
Since I currently live in the Cincinnati area and see the growth taking place here, I think I would attribute the lack of population increases in your area to the terrain. It is difficult to build in those hills which limits the amount of developable land for developers. Being from Connecticut we have the same problem and it drives up prices for land. Granted Western PA is quite affordable by comparison but that limited amount of space to build is a real impediment to getting housing and businesses into the area unless they are willing to buy existing housing stock or commercial buildings.
End result? Static population growth.
The Cincinnati metro area is flatter once you get outside of the city on the Ohio side. KY is hilly much like the city and that discouraged growth for years. Outer suburbs on the OH side with flatter terrain are seeing growth and also many of the KY counties across the river since there is still developable land due to the lack of development in past history.
Good point, if you build it they will come.....If you cant they cant.
Good point, if you build it they will come.....If you cant they cant.
And another factor to consider is the flooding taking place in areas where you either have built or could build. Not many home owners or businesses are willing to risk going into a flood plain now. Can't really do much about former development but I suspect new developers are wiser about this problem and are less likely to build in areas that frequently flood.
Yeah but some of this flooding is not actually in a flood zone so it wouldnt show up in a flood plain determination. Some are flash floods not because in a flood area but just topography of where water is flowing to the flood areas just too much at once to handle
The population will increase by exactly 1 person if I move there. :-). But that is contingent upon nobody else moving out that day.
Since I currently live in the Cincinnati area and see the growth taking place here, I think I would attribute the lack of population increases in your area to the terrain. It is difficult to build in those hills which limits the amount of developable land for developers. Being from Connecticut we have the same problem and it drives up prices for land. Granted Western PA is quite affordable by comparison but that limited amount of space to build is a real impediment to getting housing and businesses into the area unless they are willing to buy existing housing stock or commercial buildings.
End result? Static population growth.
The Cincinnati metro area is flatter once you get outside of the city on the Ohio side. KY is hilly much like the city and that discouraged growth for years. Outer suburbs on the OH side with flatter terrain are seeing growth and also many of the KY counties across the river since there is still developable land due to the lack of development in past history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knepper3
Good point, if you build it they will come.....If you cant they cant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WILWRadio
And another factor to consider is the flooding taking place in areas where you either have built or could build. Not many home owners or businesses are willing to risk going into a flood plain now. Can't really do much about former development but I suspect new developers are wiser about this problem and are less likely to build in areas that frequently flood.
Ok so maybe I’m wrong and it’s not all public policy. This could definitely be a contributing factor as well. Here in WV is is cheaper with a more friendly business climate, but the terrain coupled with bad policy making in regards to over investment of coal has definitely hurt WV for decades. It is easier to develop flat land. Couple the difficult terrain with bad public policy and you are stagnant.
By the same token Detroit and Cleveland have easier terrain to develop than Pittsburgh, so why have they been in decline as well while Indianapolis and Columbus cities with similar terrain have grown like weeds? That’s where I think most of it is poor public policy factoring in.
Pittsburgh does lack development ready sites. The large penitentiary on the north side sold for a dollar. If you look at FEMA flood maps more than half of the property is in the 100 year floodplain. Building there would be a huge risk and high insurance rates.
Another example is Millvale borough. There was a lot of talk regarding gentrification of it. However the Business district has to sit in a flood plain. It flooded out again last night. So it maybe isn’t turning a corner as fast as people hoped. Pittsburgh has a ton of old river towns. Maybe that’s a big reason for the lack of investment. They all may sit in 100 or 500 year floodplains. Getting loans and insurance is cost prohibitive. So they sit and deteriorate.
Again your point is well taken with the terrain and flood hazards, but I do think poor public policy plays a big deal in why areas stagnate or decline. But again public policy has to still be a big factor or you wouldn’t have cities with identical terrain, flat easy to develop, on opposite sides of the economic spectrum. Like Detroit and Cleveland vs Indy and Columbus
Ok so maybe I’m wrong and it’s not all public policy. This could definitely be a contributing factor as well. Here in WV is is cheaper with a more friendly business climate, but the terrain coupled with bad policy making in regards to over investment of coal has definitely hurt WV for decades. It is easier to develop flat land. Couple the difficult terrain with bad public policy and you are stagnant.
By the same token Detroit and Cleveland have easier terrain to develop than Pittsburgh, so why have they been in decline as well while Indianapolis and Columbus cities with similar terrain have grown like weeds? That’s where I think most of it is poor public policy factoring in.
Pittsburgh does lack development ready sites. The large penitentiary on the north side sold for a dollar. If you look at FEMA flood maps more than half of the property is in the 100 year floodplain. Building there would be a huge risk and high insurance rates.
Another example is Millvale borough. There was a lot of talk regarding gentrification of it. However the Business district has to sit in a flood plain. It flooded out again last night. So it maybe isn’t turning a corner as fast as people hoped. Pittsburgh has a ton of old river towns. Maybe that’s a big reason for the lack of investment. They all may sit in 100 or 500 year floodplains. Getting loans and insurance is cost prohibitive. So they sit and deteriorate.
Again your point is well taken with the terrain and flood hazards, but I do think poor public policy plays a big deal in why areas stagnate or decline. But again public policy has to still be a big factor or you wouldn’t have cities with identical terrain, flat easy to develop, on opposite sides of the economic spectrum. Like Detroit and Cleveland vs Indy and Columbus
The terrain is just one contributing factor. Ultimately you still need a business friendly government at the local level to improve the odds at attracting developers.
The City of Cincinnati City Hall is a wreck. To date I don't think I've seen a local government more messed up in how they run a city than this one and I've lived in 11 different states now. Despite this they somehow manage to attract private investment for commercial projects and also residential in the city. But with a looming budget deficit due to year after year of mismanaging city money and backing foolish projects like the Choo Choo Trolley here, I am willing to bet interest will wane in the coming years. Raising taxes while cutting services to fund their mistakes is going to hurt in the long run.
I don't know enough about the City of Pittsburgh or Allegheny County to comment how their policies have affected new development. Ultimately this is every bit as important as the limited amount of developable land in the area.
The terrain is just one contributing factor. Ultimately you still need a business friendly government at the local level to improve the odds at attracting developers.
The City of Cincinnati City Hall is a wreck. To date I don't think I've seen a local government more messed up in how they run a city than this one and I've lived in 11 different states now. Despite this they somehow manage to attract private investment for commercial projects and also residential in the city. But with a looming budget deficit due to year after year of mismanaging city money and backing foolish projects like the Choo Choo Trolley here, I am willing to bet interest will wane in the coming years. Raising taxes while cutting services to fund their mistakes is going to hurt in the long run.
I don't know enough about the City of Pittsburgh or Allegheny County to comment how their policies have affected new development. Ultimately this is every bit as important as the limited amount of developable land in the area.
^ this
Public policy is huge. Here in West Virginia Morgantown WV (hilly terrain) is growing while Erie, PA (flat)falters. Or Grand Rapids Michigan is growing while Detroit stagnates.
Good public policy is so important. It has to be even better when you have the terrain hinderance.
The terrain is just one contributing factor. Ultimately you still need a business friendly government at the local level to improve the odds at attracting developers.
The City of Cincinnati City Hall is a wreck. To date I don't think I've seen a local government more messed up in how they run a city than this one and I've lived in 11 different states now. Despite this they somehow manage to attract private investment for commercial projects and also residential in the city. But with a looming budget deficit due to year after year of mismanaging city money and backing foolish projects like the Choo Choo Trolley here, I am willing to bet interest will wane in the coming years. Raising taxes while cutting services to fund their mistakes is going to hurt in the long run.
I don't know enough about the City of Pittsburgh or Allegheny County to comment how their policies have affected new development. Ultimately this is every bit as important as the limited amount of developable land in the area.
The city of Pgh has a lot of residential and commercial development, so much that people complain about it via the mouth on the other side of their face (the other is used to complain about stagnant population.) The city is in better fiscal health than we have been in years, and just last week they were saying we were going to end up with more $$$ left over than first anticipated. The city is investing more than it has ever before but it takes time after decades of neglect. It also takes time and planning to deal with the flooding that occurs due to supercharged storms, the terrain, and bad/inadequate planning when original roads were built. Believe me, if they tore up every road to move them to a place that didnt flood the same people who complain about flooding would be complaining about the construction.
The city of Pgh has a lot of residential and commercial development, so much that people complain about it via the mouth on the other side of their face (the other is used to complain about stagnant population.) The city is in better fiscal health than we have been in years, and just last week they were saying we were going to end up with more $$$ left over than first anticipated. The city is investing more than it has ever before but it takes time after decades of neglect. It also takes time and planning to deal with the flooding that occurs due to supercharged storms, the terrain, and bad/inadequate planning when original roads were built. Believe me, if they tore up every road to move them to a place that didnt flood the same people who complain about flooding would be complaining about the construction.
I agree this 100%. In addition, the 130 municipalities in this county need to work together more. Clear-cutting land in a higher-elevated suburban community for new development without adequately addressing water retention means more runoff into creeks and streams that eventually flow downhill into other lower-lying communities. It seems like flash-flooding has worsened since I moved here.
The city of Pgh has a lot of residential and commercial development, so much that people complain about it via the mouth on the other side of their face (the other is used to complain about stagnant population.) The city is in better fiscal health than we have been in years, and just last week they were saying we were going to end up with more $$$ left over than first anticipated. The city is investing more than it has ever before but it takes time after decades of neglect. It also takes time and planning to deal with the flooding that occurs due to supercharged storms, the terrain, and bad/inadequate planning when original roads were built. Believe me, if they tore up every road to move them to a place that didnt flood the same people who complain about flooding would be complaining about the construction.
Nobody is arguing the city is on better financial footing now than in the past.
You are also correct it has had decades of neglect. You are right it takes time to fix. So why does a municipal (public) agency have access to 1 billion dollars right now to modernize an adequate high ranking airport while the water runoff and drainage is totally inadequate for the region? Why aren’t they spending big dollars to fix this issue. It is a need and not a want. Peoples lives are at risk. Explain to me where the public priority is on that. Why is the public policy skewed on that? Modernize the drainage system. Modernize the government.
And this goes back to public policy and its affects on economic sustainability and population growth in the region.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising
I agree this 100%. In addition, the 130 municipalities in this county need to work together more. Clear-cutting land in a higher-elevated suburban community for new development without adequately addressing water retention means more runoff into creeks and streams that eventually flow downhill into other lower-lying communities. It seems like flash-flooding has worsened since I moved here.
Because Pennsylvania is a commonwealth and it impossible to merge municipalities and force them to work together. Again poor public policy as a result of the public being complacent and not holding their officials accountable and the state unwilling to change old laws and expect better from Western Pennsylvania.
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