Considering a move to PGH from New England: Beechview vs. Swissvale (Pittsburgh: real estate, 2015)

[drband36]

Hello all,


My husband and I are considering a move to PGH from New England. The time window is likely about three years out. He is a federal employee and will retire at the point that we move. I'm a few years younger, work in social services and communications, and will be looking for employment in the social services/non-profit sector.

We've visited PGH many times in the past few years (probably 8-10 times), staying in different neighborhoods each time: Observatory/Perry North, Point Breeze, Wilkinsburg, Swissvale, Beechview, etc.

Swissvale and Beechview have impressed us in particular -- partially because of the extreme ease of transit, which is a huge priority for us. Living in and around the greater Boston area for the past few decades, the lack of investment in (and vision for) Boston's transit has been noticeable. The Boston system is decaying and the cost of deferred maintenance is mounting. PGH folks might find it surprising, but we find the transit in PGH's core (downtown and inner-ring suburbs) to be head and shoulders over what we've seen in other cities: for instance, Boston's idea of Bus Rapid Transit is a dedicated lane painted on the pavement, often riddled with double-parked cars, usually without signal priority. Compare that to your dedicated busways and you'll see what I mean.) Our goal would be to become a one-car family after the move -- and to use the car only sparingly.

Affordability is a key concern for us. The difference in overall cost of living in PGH when compared to New England is stark in terms of real estate. The typical $150K 3-bedroom brick bungalow that you see in so many of PGH's inner-ring suburbs would cost $600K+ in a comparable Boston neighborhood -- or $300K+ in a comparable neighborhood in most of New England's smaller cities (Worcester, Providence, Portland, Nashua/Manchester NH, etc.). The disappearance of affordability in Boston is well underway -- and other cities in New England are feeling the ripple effects.

Access to culture is another important priority: a wide range of music, independent cinema, live theater, etc. We've been really impressed at how much PGH seems to punch above its weight in this category as well.

We've been bowled over by the overall ease with which PGH folks seem to strike up conversations and have felt very welcomed each time we've visited. We've never felt drained after a visit to PGH -- not something we can say about many other places we've visited.

I've been following many of the threads with great interest. My questions at this point are:

• Comparing Beechview and Swissvale, what do you feel are the biggest points to keep in mind re: the relative merits of a city neighborhood vs. an inner-ring suburb?
• Other than visiting more, taking long urban hike walking tours to see as much as we can, and learning as much as possible from forums, following news sources such as WESA, the PPG, and The Incline, etc. is there something we're missing? Something else you'd suggest that we do to make the process as informed as possible?

Many thanks to all.

[bradjl2009]

Wow, I'm surprised to hear that about the transit in Boston. I remember during the 2015 winter it was really bad, but thought it would be extensive and reliable in a city with such high usage. Boston does seem to have ugly issues with affordability and congestion though which I would think have to be reaching a pretty strong breaking point at this rate.

But anyway, between the two I would definitely go with Beechview. I think it's a much nicer neighborhood overall and safer, and it's closer IMO to a lot of the things you would want to do in the city.

[drband36]

Originally Posted by bradjl2009

Wow, I'm surprised to hear that about the transit in Boston. I remember during the 2015 winter it was really bad, but thought it would be extensive and reliable in a city with such high usage. Boston does seem to have ugly issues with affordability and congestion though which I would think have to be reaching a pretty strong breaking point at this rate.


But anyway, between the two I would definitely go with Beechview. I think it's a much nicer neighborhood overall and safer, and it's closer IMO to a lot of the things you would want to do in the city.

Boston continues to get high scores for transit due to the fact that it has a high level of saturation in the overall metro area. But there are so many other way to measure transit quality: breakdowns, on-time rates, overcrowding, and overall lack of good repair, which all have just become chronic issues in Boston. I have taken trips on the MBTA Red Line over the past few years where I just about could have walked faster, due to the constant unexplained stops between stations. The commuter rail, while less susceptible to breakdowns and failure of the 100-year-old signals which seem to pass as "OK" in Boston, is generally packed to the gills -- i.e., so packed that tickets can't even be checked, which loses money for the T, which causes a further downward spiral. The buses are a brighter spot, but still generally a great deal more crowded and dirtier than what I've seen in PGH. Further, transit shuts down at 12:45 am due to antiquated thinking, despite Boston's status as America's biggest college town. It makes very little sense.

Thanks so much for the vote on Beechview. It is a lot closer to downtown and seems to check almost all of our boxes. As has been said here about Swissvale before, there are different sections of it which bear little resemblance to the other sections, so that makes an apples-to-apples comparison complicated.

[28CarsLater]

I don't know much about Swissvale, but I do know depending on where you would choose in Beechview could put you within walking distance of the "T" light rail, which can easily take you to South Hills Village for shopping or Downtown or North Shore for work or play. We don't have any light rail outside of the two lines in the South Hills headed into town, as someone who grew up and lives within 3 miles of Beechview I can also point out from this part of town you can reach the Parkway West, I-79, and head north of town via either the Ft Pitt Tunnels or Liberty Tunnels for your car travels as that neighborhood is in between both of them. If you take a look at a map you'll see of the road/tunnel infrastructure we do have, much of it is within reasonable distance. The major highway which heads east of the City and eventually to Monroeville and the Turnpike via the Squirrel Hill tunnels is the Parkway East/376E. This road is frequently congested and road travel east is difficult many times of the day, the local road infrastructure is much like it is in older parts of the city with stoplights on many intersections. I don't know what the bus service is like there, I would devote time to researching it

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by 28CarsLater

The major highway which heads east of the City and eventually to Monroeville and the Turnpike via the Squirrel Hill tunnels is the Parkway East/376E. This road is frequently congested and road travel east is difficult many times of the day, the local road infrastructure is much like it is in older parts of the city with stoplights on many intersections. I don't know what the bus service is like there, I would devote time to researching it

Much of Swissvale is easily accessible by the East Busway which avoids the tunnel. I assume that's what OP was talking about when they said, "partially because of the extreme ease of transit."

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

Much of Swissvale is easily accessible by the East Busway which avoids the tunnel. I assume that's what OP was talking about when they said, "partially because of the extreme ease of transit."

The problem with Swissvale though is that the nicest parts of it are the furthest away from the East Busway. The areas right around the Busway stops aren't full on-on ghetto - and haven't been getting any worse in recent years - but are still far, far from having a resurgence. Indeed, while I admit I don't hang out there or anything, I can't think of anything interesting at all in "downtown Swissvale" despite how substantial it is.

I would concur with others that Beechview is a better bet. Though if the OP could afford Dormont, I think that would be an even better choice. Same T access as Beechview, but with a much more complete business district on Patomac.

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by drband36

Boston continues to get high scores for transit due to the fact that it has a high level of saturation in the overall metro area. But there are so many other way to measure transit quality: breakdowns, on-time rates, overcrowding, and overall lack of good repair, which all have just become chronic issues in Boston. I have taken trips on the MBTA Red Line over the past few years where I just about could have walked faster, due to the constant unexplained stops between stations. The commuter rail, while less susceptible to breakdowns and failure of the 100-year-old signals which seem to pass as "OK" in Boston, is generally packed to the gills -- i.e., so packed that tickets can't even be checked, which loses money for the T, which causes a further downward spiral. The buses are a brighter spot, but still generally a great deal more crowded and dirtier than what I've seen in PGH. Further, transit shuts down at 12:45 am due to antiquated thinking, despite Boston's status as America's biggest college town. It makes very little sense.

Thanks so much for the vote on Beechview. It is a lot closer to downtown and seems to check almost all of our boxes. As has been said here about Swissvale before, there are different sections of it which bear little resemblance to the other sections, so that makes an apples-to-apples comparison complicated.

Yikes, yeah those are all major issues that really will kill whatever high level of areas there are with service. I was actually in Boston in June and took the Green Line to get around and was really surprised at how crowded this train was. I have never experienced anything that packed here in Pgh! It honestly reminded me of those videos and photos you see of how insanely crowded trains in the third world are. To be fair, the transit in Pittsburgh is exactly 24/7 too but still a little better than Boston. For the T Red Line, the last train leaves Downtown at 1:35 AM on weekdays and 1:10 AM on Saturday. Most other major bus routes stop at or a little after 1 AM as well.

[Wells5]

Originally Posted by drband36

… commuter rail, while less susceptible to breakdowns and failure of the 100-year-old signals which seem to pass as "OK" in Boston, is generally packed to the gills...




As has been said here about Swissvale before, there are different sections of it which bear little resemblance to the other sections, so that makes an apples-to-apples comparison complicated.

Those 100 year old signals on the MBTA were I believe made by Union Switch and Signal of Swissvale (now owned by the Italian company, "Ansaldo Breda.") Ditto for the 80- 90 year old signals on the NYC subway.

[Goodjules]

I moved to Pittsburgh from San Francisco for many of the same reasons you are. I'm not yet retired, but by leaving the stratospherically expensive Bay Area I can actually consider retiring at some point. I like Beechview and think the factors that make it attractive bode well for its future. While Pittsburgh isn't San Francisco or Boston, it has a lively arts, entertainment, and food scene. The pace of life isn't as frantic, and while locals complain about traffic, rush hour actually ends here. AFAIC, Pittsburgh offers a nice life with many of the cultural amenities you find in bigger, more expensive cities for a much lower price. I'm very happy with my decision to relocate. I think you will be too. Welcome!

[guy2073]

Swissvale can be a bit rough in areas, i would choose beechview