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Old 12-12-2019, 08:12 PM
 
Location: In Transition
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On the other hand the growth in Beaver County is outpacing the rest of the region. Economists at Pitt credit the construction of the ethane cracker plant. Just released today.

https://ucsur.pitt.edu/perspectives.php

 
Old 12-13-2019, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Lawrenceville, Pittsburgh
2,109 posts, read 2,159,791 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Independentthinking83 View Post
On the other hand the growth in Beaver County is outpacing the rest of the region. Economists at Pitt credit the construction of the ethane cracker plant. Just released today.

https://ucsur.pitt.edu/perspectives.php
I am sure you will be here to report in two years when that number plummets due to the loss of temporary construction revenue?
 
Old 12-13-2019, 07:44 AM
 
1,653 posts, read 1,586,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix? View Post
I am sure you will be here to report in two years when that number plummets due to the loss of temporary construction revenue?
You know, I was about to give up on this thread, but if we get an actuary explaining why you can’t conflate disparate datasets with disparate numbers measuring disparate things, it could be fun.
 
Old 12-13-2019, 07:51 AM
 
Location: In Transition
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Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix? View Post
I am sure you will be here to report in two years when that number plummets due to the loss of temporary construction revenue?
So are you a fortune teller now? That’s a pretty bold prediction. These are stats from the University of Pittsburgh. I’m sorry it doesn’t fit your narrative.

So far we have a local study saying the tech job growth has bee dismal. Now another report by a local local college stating the gas industry has been a huge boost
 
Old 12-13-2019, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Lawrenceville, Pittsburgh
2,109 posts, read 2,159,791 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Independentthinking83 View Post
So are you a fortune teller now? That’s a pretty bold prediction. These are stats from the University of Pittsburgh. I’m sorry it doesn’t fit your narrative.

So far we have a local study saying the tech job growth has bee dismal. Now another report by a local local college stating the gas industry has been a huge boost
It is not fortune telling to look at statistics which cites growth due to the construction of a plant which is expected to be completed in two years and expect that to shrink two years out. There are not any upcoming multi-billion dollar construction projects in the works that I am aware of, though if another cracker goes up, or some large downstream facilities, it could happen. On a related note, if you read the article, you'll note that this is really just reporting on BEA statistics, and not an academic study of any kind. The University of Pittsburgh did not release these statistics.
 
Old 12-13-2019, 07:35 PM
 
Location: In Transition
3,829 posts, read 1,685,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix? View Post
It is not fortune telling to look at statistics which cites growth due to the construction of a plant which is expected to be completed in two years and expect that to shrink two years out. There are not any upcoming multi-billion dollar construction projects in the works that I am aware of, though if another cracker goes up, or some large downstream facilities, it could happen. On a related note, if you read the article, you'll note that this is really just reporting on BEA statistics, and not an academic study of any kind. The University of Pittsburgh did not release these statistics.
Construction is one thing, sustaining and creating jobs is another.

CMU, Pitt and other city universities have been here a long time. Well over 100 years. These institutions are top notch and they attract students from all over the world. Pittsburgh makes bests lists due to CMU and Pitt. But other than keeping a few east end neighborhoods from falling into the doldrums, what has it done to create jobs and boost the overall economy of the city past just providing jobs at the university? They haven’t been the job creator this city and region needs. One could argue construction and renovation of university buildings in Pittsburgh make the city economy look much better than it is. At the end of the day experts agree our universities don’t deliver the economic growth, business startups and job growth as it could or should. Those institutions aren’t even credited with keeping the population from declining earlier in the decade. The credit for that has gone to the gas industry.

The high tech industry is important and there are more jobs there than there were 10 years ago. But the growth is still paltry in that sector. It has been nowhere near where it could or should be. It isn’t enough to go beyond the bakery square area of east liberty and few offices in the strip.


On the other hand you are right about the construction. But this is the biggest project in decades out of any other project in the city or region combined. I expect this to create more jobs, contribute to population growth, bring more businesses and suppliers to the region. I don’t see tech or CMU doing the same. It has been around 100 plus years longer and it just expanded into east liberty this decade.
 
Old 12-13-2019, 07:52 PM
 
Location: In Transition
3,829 posts, read 1,685,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix? View Post
It is not fortune telling to look at statistics which cites growth due to the construction of a plant which is expected to be completed in two years and expect that to shrink two years out. There are not any upcoming multi-billion dollar construction projects in the works that I am aware of, though if another cracker goes up, or some large downstream facilities, it could happen. On a related note, if you read the article, you'll note that this is really just reporting on BEA statistics, and not an academic study of any kind. The University of Pittsburgh did not release these statistics.
Here is an article from last year. This was in public source. Hence people being priced out of a few city neighborhoods. It isn’t helping everybody get ahead. Directly quoted from the article...


https://www.publicsource.org/will-pi...-it-both-ways/

“If it’s about which sector will produce the most jobs in the region, a developing petrochemical sector may have more bragging rights than Pittsburgh’s high-tech scene.

In May 2017, the American Chemistry Council, a national industry trade group, presented a scenario in which the development of a Appalachian petrochemical hub could, by 2025, deliver 100,000 new and permanent jobs to the quad-state region of Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Ohio and Kentucky.

Pittsburgh’s technology sector, on the other hand, may have produced many start-ups and lots of highly skilled jobs, but, according to a September 2017 Brookings Institution report, it has failed to translate these assets into broad-based economic activity.

While Pittsburgh is far outdoing other American cities in university R&D spending per capita, it lags in the creation of jobs. In fact, the Brookings Institution report shows that Pittsburgh has 7 percent fewer jobs in high-wage, high-tech advanced industries than it did in 2000. The city simply has no big technology companies that employ a lot of people, the report concludes.

The authors of the Brookings Institution report said: “Without a robust platform at all skill levels, the city’s significant research and technical strengths will fuel only a small portion of the region’s economy and leave many workers and families behind.”

It’s also worth noting that the extraordinary developments in two areas Pittsburgh is famous for — robotics and artificial intelligence — are widely predicted to do away with many jobs.“
 
Old 12-13-2019, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
7,270 posts, read 10,598,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Independentthinking83 View Post
So are you a fortune teller now? That’s a pretty bold prediction. These are stats from the University of Pittsburgh. I’m sorry it doesn’t fit your narrative.

So far we have a local study saying the tech job growth has bee dismal. Now another report by a local local college stating the gas industry has been a huge boost
The gas industry has been a "huge boost," yet Pennsylvania's statewide number of direct gas industry jobs is barely any higher than it was nearly a decade ago: https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/dsrv. Since 2010, the mining and logging jobs have increased by 800 statewide according the Bureau of Labor Statistics data.

Think about that--only 800 jobs more in nearly a decade's time across the entire state. That's appalling and abysmal for an industry that was supposed to "transform" the economy of so much of rural PA.

Especially given that, as reported this week, we're now only beginning to see major divestment from Marcellus shale drilling, any suggestion that Pennsylvania has "boomed" in any meaningful way from natural gas is laughably false. It's a "gold rush" industry that so many have bought into without any scrutiny, and now the state/local government/taxpayers will be on the hook for environmental restoration costs (just like with the coal industry).

That's maddening and depressing. If you want to tackle economic development issues and challenges anywhere, you can never rely on one sector or industry.

Natural gas is not, nor will it ever be, rural Pennsylvania's savior. That much is obvious.

Last edited by Duderino; 12-13-2019 at 08:40 PM..
 
Old 12-13-2019, 08:53 PM
 
Location: In Transition
3,829 posts, read 1,685,535 times
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Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
The gas industry has been a "huge boost," yet Pennsylvania's statewide number of direct gas industry jobs is barely any higher than it was nearly a decade ago: https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/dsrv. Since 2010, the mining and logging jobs have increased by 800 statewide according the Bureau of Labor Statistics data.

Think about that--only 800 jobs more in nearly a decade's time across the entire state. That's appalling and abysmal for an industry that was supposed to "transform" the economy of so much of rural PA.

Especially given that, as reported this week, we're now only beginning to see major divestment from Marcellus shale drilling, any suggestion that Pennsylvania has "boomed" in any meaningful way from natural gas is laughably false. It's a "gold rush" industry that so many have bought into without any scrutiny, and now the state/local government/taxpayers will be on the hook for environmental restoration costs (just like with the coal industry).

That's maddening and depressing. If you want to tackle economic development issues and challenges anywhere, you can never rely on one sector or industry.

Natural gas is not, nor will it ever be, rural Pennsylvania's savior. That much is obvious.
Where is there major divestment in the Marcellus shale drilling? You seem to be one of the few maddened and depressed over it. You and others just hate the industry because it isn’t sexy like tech. It doesn’t fit the narrative you want Pittsburgh to be. Folks want the region to think and act like Lawrenceville. You folks don’t realize you are in the minority with your views.

The plant isn’t even open yet. Earlier in the decade they were setting up the infrastructure to do this. It takes time. You will see a huge boost in the 2020s once it’s up and running.
 
Old 12-13-2019, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
7,270 posts, read 10,598,621 times
Reputation: 8823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Independentthinking83 View Post
Where is there major disinvestment in the Marcellus shale drilling?
Quote:
Chevron Corp., one of the biggest oil and gas companies in the world, plans to market for sale its Appalachian natural gas operation, a casualty of continued low gas prices.

...

Chevron expects to record a no cash impairment charge of between $10 billion and $11 billion in the fourth quarter, half of it involving its Appalachian shale operations. Chevron's natural gas assets include about 430,000 net acres in the Marcellus and 460,000 net acres in the Utica across Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Ohio.
https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsbur...-business.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Independentthinking83 View Post
Where is there major divestment in the Marcellus shale drilling? You seem to be one of the few maddened and depressed over it. You and others just hate the industry because it isn’t sexy like tech. It doesn’t fit the narrative you want Pittsburgh to be. Folks want the region to think and act like Lawrenceville. You folks don’t realize you are in the minority with your views.

The plant isn’t even open yet. Earlier in the decade they were setting up the infrastructure to do this. It takes time. You will see a huge boost in the 2020s once it’s up and running.
First, I'm not referring to anything related to the cracker-- that's a separate topic. But you misunderstand my sentiments. It has nothing to do with wanting a "sexy" industry; it has everything to do with a desire to promote an economically sustainable industry, and one that doesn't run on "boom/bust" dynamic or controversial environmental impacts.

Maybe you think that's too idealistic or unimportant or both, but that doesn't mean it's not worth striving for as much as possible.

Last edited by Duderino; 12-13-2019 at 09:08 PM..
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