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You are correct. I don't care for the theocratic wing of the conservative movement. I think they're moralistic hypocrites. But I also don't care for being beat up on by the moralistic hypocrites of the Progressive movement.
It's concurrently both hilarious and hurtful to me that I'm attacked as being a hater or a racist - yet I'm one of the few to speak out about such injustices as transit (spending so much money on BRT, while those who most NEED public transit access are priced out to the geographic periphery [ie Mon Valley] and NO investments are made in their public transit access)...
I'm allegedly a racist, yet the 'anti-racist advocates' are doing far more damage to African-American communities than I ever would or even could - given my lack of financial and political power.
You, eschaton, and Goodjules are three of my favorites on this sub-forum. The three of you are generally well-informed, balanced, and contribute greatly to our discussions.
You're not a racist. It's currently "cool" to hate on working-class whites and blanket us all as being uneducated/racist/hick/etc. I know what you do for a living and where you work. You contribute more to the well-being of the socioeconomically disadvantaged than most on here who call you (either overtly or subversively) a "racist" do.
I don't think we have ANY racists on this sub-forum. Classists/Elitists? Yes.
In any event I'm sure Yac will spank us soon. Sorry for my participation in going off-topic, albeit conversations about gentrification could be relevant when determining the future population of the city.
Refocusing, will we ever see population growth again in the mill towns like Millvale, Etna, or Sharpsburg? These communities are becoming increasingly "trendy" and popular since they are still close to Downtown and the East End without the East End price tag; however, with continuously-shrinking household size and no room to build what can these communities do to grow their populations again?
You, eschaton, and Goodjules are three of my favorites on this sub-forum. The three of you are generally well-informed, balanced, and contribute greatly to our discussions.
You're not a racist. It's currently "cool" to hate on working-class whites and blanket us all as being uneducated/racist/hick/etc. I know what you do for a living and where you work. You contribute more to the well-being of the socioeconomically disadvantaged than most on here who call you (either overtly or subversively) a "racist" do.
I don't think we have ANY racists on this sub-forum. Classists/Elitists? Yes.
Well, thank you very much for such an unexpected compliment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising
In any event I'm sure Yac will spank us soon. Sorry for my participation in going off-topic, albeit conversations about gentrification could be relevant when determining the future population of the city.
Refocusing, will we ever see population growth again in the mill towns like Millvale, Etna, or Sharpsburg? These communities are becoming increasingly "trendy" and popular since they are still close to Downtown and the East End without the East End price tag; however, with continuously-shrinking household size and no room to build what can these communities do to grow their populations again?
Yeah.. probably. Have a spare set of chaps I can borrow so that I can be dressed appropriately for the spanking we'll likely receive? LOL
As for Millvale, Etna, and Sharpsburg...
I dont think we'll ever seen populations like what we did before.
According to Wiki:
Etna peaked at 7,500 in 1930 and is estimated now at 3,300.
Sharpsburg peaked at 8,900 in 1920 and is estimated now at 3,300.
Millvale peaked at 8,100 in 1930 and is estimated now at 3,600.
We'll never see those numbers again - they're possible only with slum-like density and massive family sizes.
There really aren't any more appropriate places to put new developments. The towns are all constrained by large hills and the river. Theoretically Etna has an industrial park along the river that could be built on, but I dont think that the Borough wants any new development in such a flood-prone area. There is also the storage center (parallel to Route 8, where the fire took place in the spring) that could theoretically be home to new development, but I don't see that happening for quite a while.
With that being said, we are seeing growth. The transformation of Millvale in the last few years, mainly fueled by the breweries, has been incredibly unexpected. The direct bridge access to Lawrenceville also helped.
Sharpsburg always seemed as if it was the 'healthiest' of the 3 boroughs. It doesn't have a creek running through it, and the business district was always fairly intact.
As for Etna.. my house's value has doubled in six years. There are far, far, far fewer vacant structures than before. This is a blessing as there's less blight, but also a curse as there's less parking. A brewery is opening in Etna in 2020, we'll see how this may fuel any redevelopment of the business district. At present we have a few niche business (a very upscale restaurant, a very upscale recording studio) but the business district as a whole is still empty with just kind of a revolving series of thrift stores.
I think that these river towns are heading in the right direction. They're no longer declining. I don't think that the population will ever increase to what it was before, but I don't think that the population will keep dipping and I do believe that the economic forecast will continue to look good. They're never going to be boom places, but I think their days of busts and economic depressions and blight are behind them. I don't think they'll ever be as desirable as a place like Shaler - but I think that they may be more like some of our neighbors across the river (Stanton Heights and Morningside) in that they're just stable middle-class/working-class neighborhoods.
I’m not a glass half empty person. You are talking about neighborhoods that have been fully developed for decades. There isn’t all of this new housing being built to add thousands of people. It will add people but not the numbers people think or hope. How much new single family housing has been added to Lawrenceville. Ok there have been apartments and condos. Maybe a few hundred to a thousand folks. I just don’t see how you can add thousands of folks in a neighborhood already built out unless it’s many couples having children and expanding under one roof.
My point is you are probably looking at a 1 for 1 population replacement. You have gentrification and population stability with numbers. Not thousands of folks boosting numbers
Believe it or not, I am a skeptical person and lose hope when I want something to happen badly enough. Pittsburgh's population is just one of the aspects of Pennsylvania that I assume the worst for unfortunately.
But those white people aren't the problem according to this board.
The real problem is with those white people out in the suburbs, because they're the racists!
Those white people who are causing urban gentrification and are pricing African-Americans out of the urban core and on to places like the Mon Valley are the good, tolerant, liberal white people! They're so tolerant they're willing to live in historically African-American neighborhoods, for gosh sake! They're allies against racism, and gosh darn it - when those rascally racists like that insufferable tyovan4 hold up a mirror to show them their progressive hypocrisy, they just close their eyes and start singing 'tyovan4 is a suburban racist Republican, lalala, tyovan4 is a suburban racist Republican, lalala'...
I'm glad that someone else can see the hypocrisy of the East End Progressive elitists. Obviously, their hypocrisy has a slight tendency to get under my skin....
You get it my friend. That’s exactly the point I was trying to make. When the census comes out in 2020 they will be less diverse and maybe a few hundred more than 2010. I expect people to be shocked and the excuse machine to churn. I bet they will somehow blame trump for neighborhoods being undercounted. Wait and see. Coming to a city near you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising
I mean you speak the truth, though.
It seems as if the "idealized" Pittsburgh in the eyes of many is a city comprised completely of "progressive" educated techie whites with six-figure household incomes living beside (but not too close to) impoverished African-Americans in subsidized housing so those aforementioned "better" whites can still say they live in a "diverse" city and pat themselves on the backs for being "ahead of the curve".
There's so much bellyaching in this city about how affluent whites are gentrifying poor African-Americans out of the city, yet there's crickets when it comes to discussing how affluent whites are gentrifying poorer whites out of the city, too. In the eyes of the progressives we need to move mountains to make sure the apparently "socioeconomically handicapped" African-Americans can stay living in trendy urban areas whilst we tell working-class whites to "get out of the way" and to "check your privilege".
I mean I'm no longer affluent enough to comfortably afford my neighborhood, which has become more expensive over the years. I'll move to a less expensive and less trendy neighborhood so a techie can take my place and then work to make my new neighborhood more desirable so it will suit my needs. That's fine. Why is it NOT fine to tell African-Americans the same, though, when their neighborhoods become too trendy/too expensive?
That's the hypocrisy of the elitist affluent whites in this city these days that I truly don't understand. Why aren't both good or both bad? I've asked before why this double-standard exists and have yet to receive an acceptable explanation.
Neither is acceptable. And you are right about poorer whites such as yourself. It is unacceptable as well. There is one thing people are missing. The black thing is worse because those folks typically vote reliably democrat. So they are needed to win elections. Poor white folks switch to being republicans and vote for trump. That’s why it is “ok” for one and not the other. Elites think they only need blacks and not white working class to win. 2020 will be a tough reality pill for them to swallow again.
Regardless you are mostly likely seeing a 1 for 1 swap of gentrification and maybe some growth, but not much. Poor whites and minorities leave while a wealthy white elite takes their place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising
It's deflection of their white guilt.
They realize that by progressively making the city more affluent, better educated, and more "techie" with each passing year that they'll also be making it less black since Pittsburgh's black community tends to be poorer, poorer-educated, and, as such, less inclined to be able to adapt to the "new Pittsburgh".
To ease that guilt they turn to trying to find racism among "lesser" whites (working-class city whites and suburban whites in general) and amplify it to overshadow their own shortcomings on the racial equity front (i.e. "social justice warriors").
This is why I always push on social media for more and more density in our city. If we keep building thousands of more housing units in a city and metro area with a stagnant population, then, eventually, there will be room for everyone, which means rent increases can be ameliorated and fewer people (black and white alike) can be displaced in the future.
If you want to talk about "racist" people look at many of the NIMBY white East Enders on NextDoor who use code words like "problem renters" or "too many apartments" to oppose denser redevelopment projects aimed to increase the housing supply and make the area more affordable in the long-run. These NIMBY's actually made things worse for African-Americans in East Liberty with the Penn Plaza debacle because instead of replacing the lower-income housing with mixed-income housing---some of which would have been affordably-priced to those initially displaced---it will be replaced with tech offices for mostly whites and Asians. This will fuel an even greater demand for housing in/around East Liberty, which will displace even more African-Americans in the long run.
There is hope for you yet. I can’t wait for the population numbers next year. It will be interesting. Makes you want to be conservative and vote for Trump. The revolt in the Democratic Party is not blacks or Hispanics. It’s white elites against the working class whites now. It’s pretty interesting as a black man from afar to watch this unfold. Minorities and blacks are just a casualty of the elites fighting against the working class.
We know the tech jobs won’t be going to us. We may have a future driving a truck for the oil and gas industry. So that’s why we don’t get up in a bunch about pollution. Work with dirty air or be poor with clean air. That’s the choice for us folks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoNgFooCj
Believe it or not, I am a skeptical person and lose hope when I want something to happen badly enough. Pittsburgh's population is just one of the aspects of Pennsylvania that I assume the worst for unfortunately.
Nothing wrong with being skeptical. There are neighborhoods changing for the better, but at the expense of working class folks of all backgrounds that can no longer live there. The population numbers in Lawrenceville and East Liberty will show some growth but it will be a one for one swap and maybe a few hundred more than 2010.
Especially after seeing the implications of not campaigning enough in PA, I wonder why democrats still aren't fighting to the death for PAs precious 20 electoral votes.
Especially after seeing the implications of not campaigning enough in PA, I wonder why democrats still aren't fighting to the death for PAs precious 20 electoral votes.
This is really getting off topic, but it is a lot of folks that are out of touch. They think 2016 was a fluke. Pa voter lean Midwest as opposed to northeast. The blue party isn’t for the working man or jobs anymore. There is too much emphasis on universal heath care, environmental regulations, banning industry and everybody being PC and not offended. That is a losing message. Those things are important but most important is people voting with their wallets. It is the same every 4 years. Same reason bush and Obama were elected and then relected. People did not like Clinton when she was a First Lady, they didn’t like her in 2008 and she lost in 2016. Now trump has a good economy and most likely sweeps the same states other than Michigan which I think is a little more liberal than PA. The Economy will be number 1 and I saw it was number one for democrats and republicans.
Also most of pa outside of the city of Pittsburgh limits and Philly metro align with rural and small town voters in Indiana and Ohio. Democrats are losing pa outside of philly. The rest of the state is trending red. Northeast pa is becoming like the I-75 corridor around Dayton Ohio. Once blue now going red. Industrial rot and lots of longtime white blue collar residents that now are republican.
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