More Allegheny County Homicides Outside Than In The City 2019 (Pittsburgh: section 8, apartments)

[Uptown kid]

The CBS Pittsburgh link on the original post is broken see below:
https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/vide...ny-county/amp/

Watching the clip when it was airing on KDKA channel #2 at 6:00 PM yesterday made me create the thread... As I’m no longer very active on this forum for good reasons.

Yet so far the conversation has been great despite touching on race, class, crime/violence and certain neighborhoods that are not often associated with drugs/gangs/violence yet... Kudos to everyone participating. Knock on wood!

[tyovan4]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

Homicide numbers haven’t “dropped” they just moved, and essentially reversed places with the numbers in municipalities outside the city limits!

In discussing this issue at work, someone (who I believe to be 'in the know') made the point that while homicides in the City have decreased (or rather, they've followed the route of gentrification out of the City) - the number of shootings has remained steady, its just that more folks are surviving being shot. Do you share this view, or have you seen any data to give this credence or discount this?

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

Thus violence has been in decline since 2014 in the city of Pittsburgh as (1) the statistical one percent who commit around 70% have died off, are incarcerated, are under intense police surveillance, or moved on from the lifestyle. (2) Better community police relations, shot spotter, and GVI police unit.

I'm curious about your opinion regarding the impact of community trauma-response groups in reducing gun violence. I'm referring to the work of folks like Father Paul Abernathy/FOCUS Pittsburgh, Richard Garland, and Taili Thompson with ACHD?

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

Blocks of Uptown / Bluff have gotten sketchier due to displacement changes in the Hill but it’s isolated and not too much violence has come out of it.

Curious if you'd be willing to expand on this?

[Uptown kid]

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013...se-in-suburbs/

2012 was the first year it happened on record, so 2019 isn’t the first time when there were more homicides outside than in the city. Wilkinsburg had 12, McKeesport 9, 5 in McKees Rocks, 5 in Penn Hills, several more in the Mon Valley towns of Duquesne, Rankin, North Braddock and West Mifflin (Mon View Heights). Gangs were feuding heavily in most of those areas especially Wilkinsburg (even spilled over into Peabody Park when the Grandmother was killed).
Early that 2012 summer, the Northside was really violent but the police regained control. 2010 many of the county/city hoods were active, and violence was widespread. 2011 the Hill had a bad year with about a dozen homicides. Then Wilkinsburg led the pack with a dozen in 2012. Homewood was bad in 2013 with at least 10 homicides. The rest of the hoods caught up in 2014. 2015-2019 it’s been on a slow decline with many of the gang members on all sides of the city/county who started the decade either dead or in jail. Homewood, Wilkinsburg, the Hill District, the Northside or McKeesport typically led the county in murders. In terms of the city Zones it was always Zone 5, then typically Zone 1/Zone 2. Then Zone 3. With Zone 4 and Zone 6 usually being the least violent (despite seeing their fair share). Even with the mass shooting in Zone 6, Zone 5 was the most violent in homicide numbers for 2018...

Judging by the last 30 years, 2023 or 2024 would be the spike in local 2020’s murders. 1993 was the all time spike, 2003 was also bad and 2014 was the spike in 2010’s. Similar trends happened on and around those years throughout the nation. Like I said earlier, it would be society’s failures of 2000’s babies who will be doing most of the killing/dying. But 1990, 2000 and even 2010 were pretty low/average years in terms of homicides. So so should 2020.

[Uptown kid]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

In discussing this issue at work, someone (who I believe to be 'in the know') made the point that while homicides in the City have decreased (or rather, they've followed the route of gentrification out of the City) - the number of shootings has remained steady, its just that more folks are surviving being shot. Do you share this view, or have you seen any data to give this credence or discount this?

I'm curious about your opinion regarding the impact of community trauma-response groups in reducing gun violence. I'm referring to the work of folks like Father Paul Abernathy/FOCUS Pittsburgh, Richard Garland, and Taili Thompson with ACHD?

Curious if you'd be willing to expand on this?

1) Fair point, many of the people who I know have survived being shot. I was told by a young paramedic that as long as one isn’t shot in a vital organ or arteries they have a fair chance with modern medicine. I’ve also read that EMS response times and arrival to the E.R. are longer in places in the outer city limits such as the East Hills, upper Lincoln-Lemington-Belmar, outer limit streets of Homewood and Northview Heights... All of which didn’t have homicides this year and not too many shootings to test the claim.

Also what might be a factor is that the current street gang culture praises “shooters” aka “shootaz” so as long as you shoot your commended/respected by the hoodlums; whereas, during the early 90’s the culture glorified the “killaz” and 1-8-7 / K.O.S. (“Kappin Off Suckas”). Idk if that’s the reason though.

2) I’ve heard about FOCUS Pittsburgh and ACHD but Richard Garland’s group backed with the judicial powers of the GVI is the big factor. It’s worked in Boston and the other cities and is working here. Reasons why the county’s gangs were largely operating with impunity until the feds and local departments teamed up.

3) Checkout 2100 Watson Street on a warm morning, even from 5th Avenue on the PAT bus window... One could see that it’s junkie heaven. Also 1900 5th Ave units on the Crawford-Roberts side, along with 2000 block 5th Ave units (besides the Lofts) on the West Oakland side (formerly Soho) specifically. De Ruad Street had Elmore Square G-Block gang activity (prior to the fire at least). These places have former Addison Terrace residents and consequently spillover from the gangs occasionally.

Ironically, the portion of Uptown / Bluff that was once Soho i.e. from Seneca to Moultrie Street, West Oakland that was also formerly Soho and Crawford-Roberts on and immediately off 5th Ave are the most seedy residential areas of the area (so not including the bars closer towards PPG Paints Arena on the Uptown / Bluff side). People don’t always know that 5th Ave is where the neighborhoods of Uptown aka Bluff, Crawford-Roberts aka Lower Hill and West Oakland (six streets and four blocks of 5th) technically meet. One block or side of the street can determine whether one stays in the same building as college kids or hard core drug addicts.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

As I’m no longer very active on this forum for good reasons.

Yet so far the conversation has been great despite touching on race, class, crime/violence and certain neighborhoods that are not often associated with drugs/gangs/violence yet... Kudos to everyone participating. Knock on wood!

A lot of people are gone. I think it is great that you give an update on trends and put things into perspective. Lots of good questions asked from others as well, like survival is getting better, but the city does seem to be safer as far as murders go and that is the big one.

Thanks for dropping by so people get an idea what is taking place. I am really out of it these days as the news isn't local anymore as they need to put in crap from all over to be competitive in their shock value reporting. No shock, not enough people tuning in. It is what it is, but I know it isn't healthy for people to watch all the time.

[tyovan4]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

1) Fair point, many of the people who I know have survived being shot. I was told by a young paramedic that as long as one isn’t shot in a vital organ or arteries they have a fair chance with modern medicine. I’ve also read that EMS response times and arrival to the E.R. are longer in places in the outer city limits such as the East Hills, upper Lincoln-Lemington-Belmar, outer limit streets of Homewood and Northview Heights... All of which didn’t have homicides this year and not too many shootings to test the claim.

Also what might be a factor is that the current street gang culture praises “shooters” aka “shootaz” so as long as you shoot your commended/respected by the hoodlums; whereas, during the early 90’s the culture glorified the “killaz” and 1-8-7 / K.O.S. (“Kappin Off Suckas”). Idk if that’s the reason though.

2) I’ve heard about FOCUS Pittsburgh and ACHD but Richard Garland’s group backed with the judicial powers of the GVI is the big factor. It’s worked in Boston and the other cities and is working here. Reasons why the county’s gangs were largely operating with impunity until the feds and local departments teamed up.

3) Checkout 2100 Watson Street on a warm morning, even from 5th Avenue on the PAT bus window... One could see that it’s junkie heaven. Also 1900 5th Ave units on the Crawford-Roberts side, along with 2000 block 5th Ave units (besides the Lofts) on the West Oakland side (formerly Soho) specifically. De Ruad Street had Elmore Square G-Block gang activity (prior to the fire at least). These places have former Addison Terrace residents and consequently spillover from the gangs occasionally.

Ironically, the portion of Uptown / Bluff that was once Soho i.e. from Seneca to Moultrie Street, West Oakland that was also formerly Soho and Crawford-Roberts on and immediately off 5th Ave are the most seedy residential areas of the area (so not including the bars closer towards PPG Paints Arena on the Uptown / Bluff side). People don’t always know that 5th Ave is where the neighborhoods of Uptown aka Bluff, Crawford-Roberts aka Lower Hill and West Oakland (six streets and four blocks of 5th) technically meet. One block or side of the street can determine whether one stays in the same building as college kids or hard core drug addicts.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm familiar with Uptown along Fifth up to Dinwiddie, but don't go further east towards Oakland than Dinwiddie.

Soooo... I did find statistics about shootings within the City of Pittsburgh on the Allegheny County Analytics website: https://www.alleghenycountyanalytics...ty-pittsburgh/
This data is a month behind.

Non-Fatal Shootings
2016 - 194
2017 - 136
2018 - 118
2019 (not including December) - 137

Aggravated Assaults with a Firearm
2016 - 203
2017 - 189
2018 -146
2019 (not including December) - 151

Shots Fired
2016 - 2,560
2017 - 2,252
2018 - 1,959
2019 (not including December) - 3,111 ... look at THAT huge jump!

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm familiar with Uptown along Fifth up to Dinwiddie, but don't go further east towards Oakland than Dinwiddie.

Soooo... I did find statistics about shootings within the City of Pittsburgh on the Allegheny County Analytics website: https://www.alleghenycountyanalytics...ty-pittsburgh/
This data is a month behind.

Non-Fatal Shootings
2016 - 194
2017 - 136
2018 - 118
2019 (not including December) - 137

Aggravated Assaults with a Firearm
2016 - 203
2017 - 189
2018 -146
2019 (not including December) - 151

Shots Fired
2016 - 2,560
2017 - 2,252
2018 - 1,959
2019 (not including December) - 3,111 ... look at THAT huge jump!

I’d wager many repeat criminals who illegally acquire guns are responsible for most of those disturbing stats, and unfortunately the consequences are far too lenient for those who use guns illegally.

[gg]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm familiar with Uptown along Fifth up to Dinwiddie, but don't go further east towards Oakland than Dinwiddie.

Soooo... I did find statistics about shootings within the City of Pittsburgh on the Allegheny County Analytics website: https://www.alleghenycountyanalytics...ty-pittsburgh/
This data is a month behind.

Non-Fatal Shootings
2016 - 194
2017 - 136
2018 - 118
2019 (not including December) - 137

Aggravated Assaults with a Firearm
2016 - 203
2017 - 189
2018 -146
2019 (not including December) - 151

Shots Fired
2016 - 2,560
2017 - 2,252
2018 - 1,959
2019 (not including December) - 3,111 ... look at THAT huge jump!

Personally, I don’t think 4 years is enough to get a trend. 10 years is a minimum and 20 is much better.

Over 3000 is a big number. Almost doesn’t seem real.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

In case you missed it the numbers are in for homicides that occurred in the city of Pittsburgh and surrounding Allegheny County. Homicides in the city of Pittsburgh dropped by more than a quarter in 2019, and were tied at the lowest the city has recorded since 1998 (when much of the gang violence of the early 90’s was resolved). However, parts of Allegheny County such as Wilkinsburg, Penn Hills, areas in the Mon Valley/Turtle Creek Valley and other Eastern Suburbs and Stowe-Rocks led the county to surpass numbers in the city. With 59 homicides occurring outside the city limits. So don’t just get caught up in the headline that Pittsburgh hit a two decade low in murders. Homicide numbers haven’t “dropped” they just moved, and essentially reversed places with the numbers in municipalities outside the city limits!

See more in the following articles / map / video.

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

TribLIVE

WTAE

CBS Pittsburgh

So what you're saying is that the suburbs beat the City once again in a category.

[Uptown kid]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

So what you're saying is that the suburbs beat the City once again in a category.

Only for the second time since Allegheny County’s recorded history. It’s not the type of statistics either area should want to lead in though.