Unique Dormont infill housing and other updates (Pittsburgh: houses, neighborhood)

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Copanut

And with taxes just as high as Mt. Lebanon!!!

Actually, Lebo wins with 34.23 vs 34.20 mills. I am amazed the prices that Dormont is getting. Still can't understand why their township millage is 9.97, most townships/boros are in the 3-5 bracket.

Have relatives in Dormont, and can’t understand why so many people want to live on a cliff....although I do like going to Beto’s when visiting them.

[Doowlle34]

Very likely that these purchasers are, unfortunately, going to get whacked with a $9,000 a year tax bill, between municipality, school, and county. Luckily, we purchased 7 - 8 years ago, and our total tax burden is only (approx.) $6,000 a year. Nothing to brag about, but that was about as high as I was willing to go at the time.

I know Erieguy doesn't like my tax schemes, but I had, at one time, liked the idea of letting the taxman take a little extra on these sales that evidence windfall profits (again, there has got to be some amount that would raise additional revenue, without depressing the drive to rehab). I also like the idea of creating a "market" for reassessments -- basically, allowing a private third party to identify underassessed properties; bring a challenge to the assessment; and thereby keep a percentage of the extra tax monies raised for a year or period of years after a successful challenge (perhaps the parties could also be financially "punished" if they bring a challenge that does not result in increased tax revenues). I also think there are several rental properties in Dormont that are severely underassessed, perhaps because they change hands, on average, less frequently than single family homes. Not sure if the borough could track rent increases and use that as a trigger for reassessments, similar to the way home sales are used as a trigger for single family homes.

By contrast to this house above, which is a rehab, another recent 300k+ sale in Dormont involved a house owned by the same couple since the mid-1980s. They had lovingly restored the house, and although it had no doubt been worth, at least, in the high 200s for several years, they were "sitting pretty" with a sub-150k assessed value since the last reassessment. So, in my thinking, these folks were getting an amazing tax break for the last several years, and when they go to sell at a price that is more than 100k over the assessed value, maybe they should "give a little back" to the borough. Then I saw, in a 2019 Keystone Oaks budget presentation, that there was a major property owner in Greentree that was challenging its $25 million assessment (I think it may have been the City View apartment complex, but it was not specifically identified in the presentation), and if the property holder was successful, it would result in a tax revenue loss of about $500,000. So, this made the amount that might be raised by my tax schemes seem like chump change. I haven't seen an update on this issue, so I'm not sure what happened to the challenge; it may still be working its way through the courts.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by Doowlle34

By contrast to this house above, which is a rehab, another recent 300k+ sale in Dormont involved a house owned by the same couple since the mid-1980s. They had lovingly restored the house, and although it had no doubt been worth, at least, in the high 200s for several years, they were "sitting pretty" with a sub-150k assessed value since the last reassessment. So, in my thinking, these folks were getting an amazing tax break for the last several years, and when they go to sell at a price that is more than 100k over the assessed value, maybe they should "give a little back" to the borough.

Would YOU do that? If so, you're very rare. Most homes in Allegheny County are underassessed. During the last reassessment less than 20% of homeowners appealed. Obviously, the others felt they were either at or below market value.

[Doowlle34]

Oh yea, not voluntarily but I’m advocating a taxing reg.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Doowlle34

Oh yea, not voluntarily but I’m advocating a taxing reg.

Why don’t you just pay more in taxes each year to help out?

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Would YOU do that? If so, you're very rare. Most homes in Allegheny County are underassessed. During the last reassessment less than 20% of homeowners appealed. Obviously, the others felt they were either at or below market value.

Because many folks love the tax man.

[svband76]

Originally Posted by Doowlle34

Very likely that these purchasers are, unfortunately, going to get whacked with a $9,000 a year tax bill, between municipality, school, and county. Luckily, we purchased 7 - 8 years ago, and our total tax burden is only (approx.) $6,000 a year. Nothing to brag about, but that was about as high as I was willing to go at the time.

I know Erieguy doesn't like my tax schemes, but I had, at one time, liked the idea of letting the taxman take a little extra on these sales that evidence windfall profits (again, there has got to be some amount that would raise additional revenue, without depressing the drive to rehab). I also like the idea of creating a "market" for reassessments -- basically, allowing a private third party to identify underassessed properties; bring a challenge to the assessment; and thereby keep a percentage of the extra tax monies raised for a year or period of years after a successful challenge (perhaps the parties could also be financially "punished" if they bring a challenge that does not result in increased tax revenues). I also think there are several rental properties in Dormont that are severely underassessed, perhaps because they change hands, on average, less frequently than single family homes. Not sure if the borough could track rent increases and use that as a trigger for reassessments, similar to the way home sales are used as a trigger for single family homes.

By contrast to this house above, which is a rehab, another recent 300k+ sale in Dormont involved a house owned by the same couple since the mid-1980s. They had lovingly restored the house, and although it had no doubt been worth, at least, in the high 200s for several years, they were "sitting pretty" with a sub-150k assessed value since the last reassessment. So, in my thinking, these folks were getting an amazing tax break for the last several years, and when they go to sell at a price that is more than 100k over the assessed value, maybe they should "give a little back" to the borough. Then I saw, in a 2019 Keystone Oaks budget presentation, that there was a major property owner in Greentree that was challenging its $25 million assessment (I think it may have been the City View apartment complex, but it was not specifically identified in the presentation), and if the property holder was successful, it would result in a tax revenue loss of about $500,000. So, this made the amount that might be raised by my tax schemes seem like chump change. I haven't seen an update on this issue, so I'm not sure what happened to the challenge; it may still be working its way through the courts.

The Greentree tax challenger must have been Paul Kossman? Don't get me started on that joker.

[Doowlle34]

Hard to say. It is referenced on page 9 of the 2019 presentation that is the last link on this page:

https://www.kosd.org/FiscalServices.aspx


I'm not sure what made me think it was the city view apartments (should have said city vista), but as I re-read slide 9, it looks like maybe one property holder is looking for a decrease of 24,500,000. I originally interpreted this to mean that the property holder was assessed at around 25 million, which is similar to what City Vista is assessed at. I don't see any recent update on this issue, however.

[robrobrob]

Originally Posted by Doowlle34

Hard to say. It is referenced on page 9 of the 2019 presentation that is the last link on this page:

https://www.kosd.org/FiscalServices.aspx


I'm not sure what made me think it was the city view apartments (should have said city vista), but as I re-read slide 9, it looks like maybe one property holder is looking for a decrease of 24,500,000. I originally interpreted this to mean that the property holder was assessed at around 25 million, which is similar to what City Vista is assessed at. I don't see any recent update on this issue, however.

Even getting an appraisal on a large commercial project will put a dent in municipal budget. Plus legal fees.

[Doowlle34]

I took a quick look through the Green Tree Borough meeting minutes last night, but didn't see any references to this particular tax appeal (as I assume this has to be a property in the Green Tree area of Keystone Oaks). There was one reference to a large reduction in the December 2020 meeting minutes, although the amount of the reduction ($68,000) does not totally match-up with the $24,500,000 figure (and there is no mention of the refunds for past years). There is also some ominous mention of the fact that several property holders will be looking for reductions based on Covid-related downturns:

Mr. Montz said that the 2021 real estate tax rate would remain the same. Council held its budget
review meeting on November 23rd. At that time, Mr. Montz had expressed his concerns about
the 2020 budget regarding revenues. Mr. Montz projected that the borough would see a
reduction of approximately $94,000 in real estate taxes next year with about $68,000 of that
reduction coming from one real estate property in addition to other revenue losses. This is based
on the assumption that the hotels in the borough will most likely be appealing their 2021 taxes
resulting in a significant reduction in tax collection for the borough.
Another hotel in the borough has already appealed for a tax reduction stating that their income
had been significantly reduced because of the COVID-19 pandemic. The borough anticipates
other local hotels to be doing the same. Mr. Montz said the office parks are also expected to file
tax appeals as a result of the pandemic's impact. Mr. Montz said that he and the Solicitor would
be monitoring all tax appeals with spreadsheets to keep Council up to date