More Class A office space being vacated downtown (Pittsburgh, Wilkinsburg: apartments, leasing)

[Geeo]

Can't we be happy that both downtown Pittsburgh and downtown Cleveland are doing well? We're not that far away from each other and it's nice to have good things going on in the larger region. Both cities took a huge hit in the 80s with the de-industrialization of the midwest and went through very hard times. Now each city has made a pretty successful transition to the new economy based on their strengths. It could have gone the other way. Both cities are more alike than they are different.

[lprmesia]

Originally Posted by Geeo

Can't we be happy that both downtown Pittsburgh and downtown Cleveland are doing well?

No.

(continues to stir the pot)

I mean, this is the same forum that has city vs city threads. Glad to see they're both doing well. At least we're not Baltimore, right?

[PghYinzer]

Originally Posted by Independentthinking83

A lot. PNC offers daily shuttles between both cities. I know a handful of people that work for PNC, still live in Pittsburgh and use the shuttle to work at PNC in downtown Cleveland 3 days a week. And the shuttle is full.

You act like they are worlds apart. None of the stats and facts back up your feelings. There are a lot of opinions and bests lists touting how great Pittsburgh is. People think and feel our downtown is a lot better. Stats and facts say otherwise.

What are you talking about? Yes PNC has offices in both places and employees travel back and forth between the cities. What on earth does that have to do with the respective downtowns. I asked who on this board who is stating CLE is on the rise, while Pgh is stagnating is spending time in both. They are not riding the shuttle because of some issue in Pgh.

[PghYinzer]

Originally Posted by Paul2421

i really don't know what to think. i definitely think downtown has been improving but there is a trend for employers to move to the strip and east end that is somewhat alarming for the future of downtown. i worry that this will lesson the focus on downtown as the job center and will be a negative for public transit.

i think vacancy rates can be moderated a bit as it always is going to meet demand. the main factor is going to be how much is "ready". i can't imagine all of the space in the old buildings is built out for offices.

Have many downtown employers moved to the Strip? Perhaps a law firm? It's not some mass exodus but I thought the growth of in the Strip was by companies who were never downtown to begin with.

[Geeo]

I checked the Business Times articles for the last month, and yes, most of the companies moving to the Strip are new to the city and did not move from downtown. Some I've heard about, like Uber Advanced Technology Center, Facebook and Burns-White. Some of the ones mentioned in the Biz Times I never heard of: Denso, Gridwise (mobile app development), Honeywell Robotics, Bombardier, Red Zone Robotics, HEBI Robotics, and Edge Case Research. All new to the Strip, and the article said that they keep coming and the developers are trying to meet the demand with new office buildings.

[Independentthinking83]

Originally Posted by Paul2421

i really don't know what to think. i definitely think downtown has been improving but there is a trend for employers to move to the strip and east end that is somewhat alarming for the future of downtown. i worry that this will lesson the focus on downtown as the job center and will be a negative for public transit.

i think vacancy rates can be moderated a bit as it always is going to meet demand. the main factor is going to be how much is "ready". i can't imagine all of the space in the old buildings is built out for offices.

The numbers don’t like. And yes I agree with you. Businesses are choosing greater downtown (strip/ North shore) and west out by the airport. It is alarming. Rents are too high downtown IMO.

Originally Posted by Geeo

Can't we be happy that both downtown Pittsburgh and downtown Cleveland are doing well? We're not that far away from each other and it's nice to have good things going on in the larger region. Both cities took a huge hit in the 80s with the de-industrialization of the midwest and went through very hard times. Now each city has made a pretty successful transition to the new economy based on their strengths. It could have gone the other way. Both cities are more alike than they are different.

That’s exactly my point. Downtown pitt and Cleveland aren’t worlds apart. When you look at facts and numbers lately the edge goes to downtown Cleveland. Cleveland gets such poor press compared to Pittsburgh. Yet it isn’t bad and in some cases better.

Both cities have made a comeback and workers commute back and forth to both. A win win in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Geeo

I checked the Business Times articles for the last month, and yes, most of the companies moving to the Strip are new to the city and did not move from downtown. Some I've heard about, like Uber Advanced Technology Center, Facebook and Burns-White. Some of the ones mentioned in the Biz Times I never heard of: Denso, Gridwise (mobile app development), Honeywell Robotics, Bombardier, Red Zone Robotics, HEBI Robotics, and Edge Case Research. All new to the Strip, and the article said that they keep coming and the developers are trying to meet the demand with new office buildings.

The strip is going to be totally different than it is today. The old shops are markets are gonna go to make way for new offices.

[eschaton]

As has been repeatedly noted, Downtown Cleveland is not comparable to Downtown Pittsburgh, because it's 2.1 miles versus our 0.66 miles. It contains large areas which in Pittsburgh would be considered to be outside of Downtown proper, like old warehouse districts, the stadiums, a small airport, CSU's campus, Historic Asiatown, etc. Large sections of it still look desolate like the Strip District ten years ago. But the fact remains that of course if you're dealing with a larger geographic area you're going to have a larger "downtown population."

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by eschaton

As has been repeatedly noted, Downtown Cleveland is not comparable to Downtown Pittsburgh, because it's 2.1 miles versus our 0.66 miles. It contains large areas which in Pittsburgh would be considered to be outside of Downtown proper, like old warehouse districts, the stadiums, a small airport, CSU's campus, Historic Asiatown, etc. Large sections of it still look desolate like the Strip District ten years ago. But the fact remains that of course if you're dealing with a larger geographic area you're going to have a larger "downtown population."

Correct. I mean if Downtown Pittsburgh could also include the South Shore (Glasshouse), North Shore (Morgan @ North Shore), Crawford-Roberts (Crawford Square), Uptown, and the Strip District (a couple thousand yuppies) our population would be closer to that of the much-larger Downtown Cleveland, too.

[Independentthinking83]

Originally Posted by eschaton

As has been repeatedly noted, Downtown Cleveland is not comparable to Downtown Pittsburgh, because it's 2.1 miles versus our 0.66 miles. It contains large areas which in Pittsburgh would be considered to be outside of Downtown proper, like old warehouse districts, the stadiums, a small airport, CSU's campus, Historic Asiatown, etc. Large sections of it still look desolate like the Strip District ten years ago. But the fact remains that of course if you're dealing with a larger geographic area you're going to have a larger "downtown population."

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Correct. I mean if Downtown Pittsburgh could also include the South Shore (Glasshouse), North Shore (Morgan @ North Shore), Crawford-Roberts (Crawford Square), Uptown, and the Strip District (a couple thousand yuppies) our population would be closer to that of the much-larger Downtown Cleveland, too.

And yet it has no bearing on the fact that class A office space in Pittsburgh is more vacant than in downtown Cleveland.

If pigs had wings they could fly too.

[OyCrumbler]

Should there be more conversion of office space to residential then? It seems like Pittsburgh's downtown keeps on growing as a mixed-use space. Downtown Pittsburgh prices aren’t very cheap for commercial or residential, so there’s a lot of room to adjust before someone or some entity bites. It just doesn’t at all seem like the vacancies are due to lack of demand so much as it is lack of demand at high prices.

One thing to note about the downtown Cleveland comparison aside from it usually defined as a far larger physical area than downtown Pittsburgh is that downtown Cleveland has an astounding amount of surface parking lots where buildings once stood and those parking lots are not Class A office space and are only very occasionally residential. Things have been improving in downtown Cleveland since the height of the recession though.