COVID 19 stats - ALLEGHENY COUNTY and beyond (Pittsburgh, Beaver: employment, schools)

[Catia]

Originally Posted by zip95

That's a pretty dramatic scenario.

Unfortunately, your predictions are going to be tested. Several countries have decided to let the virus run it's course, for example Iran, and the majority of the rest of the world couldn't impose an effective lockdown if they wanted to, for example Indian slums and Brazilian favelas.

I predict that over-crowded hospitals and morgues wont cause societal breakdown, but empty stomachs from broken economies will.

Unfortuneately they are not 'my predictions' of extreme scenarios, it *IS* what is happening in other parts of the world as we speak. I wish it were not happening.
Yes, it IS unfortunate, and if you view the news in those countries, there are already bodies in the streets, for days now. People have to remove the deceased from their homes to the streets, because they have no alternatives for removal.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix?

I think the most frightening thing about "thinning the herd" when it comes to this particular virus (and there are a lot of frightening things...) is that it would disproportionately "thin" trained healthcare workers, frontline physicians and nurses, etc. Is this really what people want?

Exactly. Now, if we can thin the herd with Spring Breakers, those wackos that attend church as they are protected by Jesus's blood, and anyone that sneezes on food, them I'm all for it.

[zip95]

Originally Posted by Catia

Unfortuneately they are not 'my predictions' of extreme scenarios, it *IS* what is happening in other parts of the world as we speak. I wish it were not happening.
Yes, it IS unfortunate, and if you view the news in those countries, there are already bodies in the streets, for days now. People have to remove the deceased from their homes to the streets, because they have no alternatives for removal.

It's for sure horrible that morgues are so over-extended they are unable to pick up the deceased in a timely manner. It makes for horrific television footage, but it's light years from de-civilization like Syria or full societal collapse like Afghanistan.

What TV is showing you is an over-extended healthcare system. To extrapolate that to, as you put it, "breakdown in government at all levels... Breakdown in food supply... law enforcement... power grid... Clean water" is way way way over the top, not based in reality, contradictory to facts on the ground, and borderline dishonest.

When you see a local war lord in Italy with a pick-up mounted machine-gun we can reassess.

[Catia]

Originally Posted by zip95

It's for sure horrible that morgues are so over-extended they are unable to pick up the deceased in a timely manner. It makes for horrific television footage, but it's light years from de-civilization like Syria or full societal collapse like Afghanistan.

What TV is showing you is an over-extended healthcare system. To extrapolate that to, as you put it, "breakdown in government at all levels... Breakdown in food supply... law enforcement... power grid... Clean water" is way way way over the top, not based in reality, contradictory to facts on the ground, and borderline dishonest.

When you see a local war lord in Italy with a pick-up mounted machine-gun we can reassess.

1st I do not watch TV. Maybe 1-2 hours per month *if* that.(lately it's been 1-2 hrs per wk)
I read, I'm an old school research dork. I fact find, and I work hands on. It's what I do.
I know the media if full of crap. I tuned out a long time ago.
Actually, I was never fully tuned in. I was raised NOT to watch TV. I was allowed to go to the library for anything I wanted instead. I was taught to think for myself, question everything, to make my own decisions.


The bodies in the streets I was referring to was in Equador, but there are a few other places as well.
It does not matter WHERE it is occurring, could be Iran, Fiji, Detroit-anywhere really, the result is still the same.


We are not only talking about losing lives. If you let the virus rip-we are talking about losing a KNOWLEDGE BASE that cannot be replaced to what it is now.
Letting the virus rip amounts to a lot more death than just the virus infects.
It is the butterfly effect of letting it rip, it affects everything downstream.


Understand that the people who will NOT have access to medical care are the very people who have the KNOWLEDGE and also PERFORM all of those jobs I listed, and plenty others as well.


The people who will not have access to medical care are not only those infected, it is everybody.
Then with healthcare workers sick, & some deceased, we lose that KNOWLEDGE base as well.
Do you want an experienced heart surgeon?
Do you want safe food in abundance?
Who is going to fix your leaky roof?
Repair your car?
Our government has a LOT of older people as well.


These necessary invisible positions that keep us living day in & day out cannot be simply replaced by some young healthy millennial just because they are a warm body.


They're not gonna shovel Sh*t on a farm, climb the utility poles & know how to repair the grid, they don't know how to run government, they don't have years of experience in a research lab, or years of experience with the law to protect our constitution, or our civil rights. Heck, I don't even know one that can change their own oil, or a tire.


I don't want a bunch of kids who's only experience in the REAL world is virtual reality, playing the Sims 8 hours per day, accepting 'participation awards', running our govt at any level.

I want an old fart who can interpret the 2nd amendment, and field strip their own gun. I want people who have children & grandchildren & the life experience that comes with their age running things.

[erieguy]

The media has made a fear mongering monster out of this virus.

The old farts opposed to the second amendment can interpret it, they just don’t like it, and one of the front runners will probably have to read it repeatedly so he can remember it each day. I almost want to see one of the old farts win just to sit back and watch socialism play out as I guarantee those begging for it aren’t going to like it.

[tyovan4]

Originally Posted by Catia

they don't know how to run government, they don't have.. years of experience with the law to protect our constitution, or our civil rights. Heck, I don't even know one that can change their own oil, or a tire.

I want an old fart who can interpret the 2nd amendment, and field strip their own gun. I want people who have children & grandchildren & the life experience that comes with their age running things.

Open your eyes and quit blindly hating on those younger than you.
Our civil rights are being flushed down the toilet during this crisis - when your generation is in charge.
Constitutional checks-and-balances? LMAO - where do you see that in action in the present day? We're living in dictatorships of the executive branch.

I'm 32. My son is 10.
I can change my oil. And a tire. The Second Amendment is easy to interpret. The PA Constitution is even easier: "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.". Hint hint - the people infringing on firearms rights (like Tom Wolf and Bill Peduto) AIN'T millennials.

Oh yes, and here's an even scarier thought for you - there's even millennials in government!

[szug-bot]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

..
Constitutional checks-and-balances? LMAO - where do you see that in action in the present day? We're living in dictatorships of the executive branch.
.

Trump has been....well, something else, but "dictatorship". Really? I have family that came FROM dictatorships, and a friend who lived in the USSR. This is not a dictatorship, by any stretch of the imagination.

[gg]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

Trump has been....well, something else, but "dictatorship". Really? I have family that came FROM dictatorships, and a friend who lived in the USSR. This is not a dictatorship, by any stretch of the imagination.

Yep, quite the opposite. Trump has given power to the states to respond to the coronavirus. He seems to give more power to local governments than implement a national response. That is the opposite of a dictatorship, but I have noticed with the far left, they can't talk logically about much of anything because they are so filled with hatred of anyone that doesn't align with them and their echo-chamber. They hate diversity of thought. Scary stuff, but we need to someday address how intolerant the extremes are. Thankfully, there are a lot of thinkers in the middle and they seem to run things quietly. The middle tends to be more quiet as they are more boring than the media's fascination with the moronic extremes.

[Knepper3]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

Open your eyes and quit blindly hating on those younger than you.
Our civil rights are being flushed down the toilet during this crisis - when your generation is in charge.
Constitutional checks-and-balances? LMAO - where do you see that in action in the present day? We're living in dictatorships of the executive branch.

I'm 32. My son is 10.
I can change my oil. And a tire. The Second Amendment is easy to interpret. The PA Constitution is even easier: "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.". Hint hint - the people infringing on firearms rights (like Tom Wolf and Bill Peduto) AIN'T millennials.

Oh yes, and here's an even scarier thought for you - there's even millennials in government!

I will say this has given the NRA a stronger position. I've seen various reports from other areas (nothing here I can tell) that police were limiting what they would respond to in person. I'm sure anything serious they would but little things can turn big pretty quick sometimes.

[tyovan4]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

Trump has been....well, something else, but "dictatorship". Really? I have family that came FROM dictatorships, and a friend who lived in the USSR. This is not a dictatorship, by any stretch of the imagination.

My son's mother grew up in the Soviet Union. She'd disagree with you.

What would you call a system where one person in the executive branch has the power to unilaterally close certain types of businesses that he deems aren't 'essential' and puts a million of his constituents out of work in a month and makes them reliant on the government for survival? Particularly when law offices were included in his initial closure order? The courts are closed and the legislature isn't debating this economic suicide. This one person even tried to close gun stores, even though the right to bear arms is a clearly enumerated right in both the Federal and State Constitutions.

And there is no sunset provision within the order that mandates these actions.

So, what would you call this type of governance? A democratic republic with checks-and-balances between co-equal branches of government? Or a dictatorship of the executive branch?

Originally Posted by gg

Yep, quite the opposite. Trump has given power to the states to respond to the coronavirus. He seems to give more power to local governments than implement a national response. That is the opposite of a dictatorship, but I have noticed with the far left, they can't talk logically about much of anything because they are so filled with hatred of anyone that doesn't align with them and their echo-chamber. They hate diversity of thought. Scary stuff, but we need to someday address how intolerant the extremes are. Thankfully, there are a lot of thinkers in the middle and they seem to run things quietly. The middle tends to be more quiet as they are more boring than the media's fascination with the moronic extremes.

I was referring to Governors such as Tom Wolf and Andrew Cuomo.

If you were trying to lump me in with the 'far left', you've really gone off of the rails. I'm part of the libertarian right.

Originally Posted by Knepper3

I will say this has given the NRA a stronger position. I've seen various reports from other areas (nothing here I can tell) that police were limiting what they would respond to in person. I'm sure anything serious they would but little things can turn big pretty quick sometimes.

yup, opening the jails and seeing expectations that up to 40% of police officers could be sidelined with this - it certainly has a way of making people see the value in having the ability to defend themselves, their families, and their homes.