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Yep. It’s nothing new. The economic situation hurts Pittsburgh. It is a remote city in a no mans land. It’s too far west to be connected to Philly and the east coast. By the same token it is too Far East to be considered truly midwest. Ohio, Indiana and Michigan still have manufacturing. Most manufacturing has left western pa. There are more tech and logistics jobs in Columbus than Pittsburgh.
You have to drive at least two hours to get to another city over 100K in population being Erie and Cleveland. Aside from that it is a 3-5 hour drive to more civilization other than Cleveland and Erie.
I hate to say it but western pa is pretty much lumped in with West Virginia for those geographical reasons I mentioned. Two places stuck between two regions that aren’t really connected to either. Plus there is an over abundance of college grads here with limited opportunities. In the Midwest or east coast there is more competition due to larger cities within a reasonable and easy drive distance for talent.
The regional points are true, but it's not a no man's land.
There are many metros where it's much farther to get a city. Pittsburgh is 4-5 hours from the Ohio cities, plus Philly, DC and Baltimore. That's a LOT of cities within a reasonable distance, not what's a little beyond that,
Pittsburgh roads are very windy and mysterious and I always lose my way and my GPS loses its sense of direction quite often. Coming from Michigan, I’m used to straight, flat roads. Plus, my car can’t make it up a icy hill, but it’s quite controllable on a snowy flat road.
Also, the alcohol laws are messed up. I like the convenience of grabbing a bottle of whiskey while I’m grocery shopping. I don’t need to hunt for a liquor store to do that. For a place with bad winters, its more annoying when you add more red tape for getting a strong drink.
Last edited by FrozenI69; 11-26-2020 at 09:19 PM..
Yep. It’s nothing new. The economic situation hurts Pittsburgh. It is a remote city in a no mans land. It’s too far west to be connected to Philly and the east coast. By the same token it is too Far East to be considered truly midwest. Ohio, Indiana and Michigan still have manufacturing. Most manufacturing has left western pa. There are more tech and logistics jobs in Columbus than Pittsburgh.
You have to drive at least two hours to get to another city over 100K in population being Erie and Cleveland. Aside from that it is a 3-5 hour drive to more civilization other than Cleveland and Erie.
I hate to say it but western pa is pretty much lumped in with West Virginia for those geographical reasons I mentioned. Two places stuck between two regions that aren’t really connected to either. Plus there is an over abundance of college grads here with limited opportunities. In the Midwest or east coast there is more competition due to larger cities within a reasonable and easy drive distance for talent.
This is so hyperbolic. Cleveland and Erie are pretty significant, Baltimore/D.C. like four hours the other direction. We can just as easily say that being the link between the upper midwest and northeast is a geographic advantage. Have lived in both Columbus and Pittsburgh. Trust me, in Columbus it doesn't feel like you're close or connected to anything. There's not even a train station there.
By the standards you're using, Atlanta is way more isolated. What about Denver or Minneapolis? Why do all those places get to pretend like they're at the center of it all?
BTW, the fact that Pittsburgh isn't in the midwest or northeast has always been one of my favorite things about it.
Consider yourself very lucky to have lived in such a place to give you perspective. I honestly never encountered such hate until recent years in Pittsburgh. Trump being a president was sure an educational experience. I could care less who the president is. I won't forget the horrible leftists ways ever. That is in them. No thanks to being around them as friends. Nope.
I think what encapsulates the left in our region for me is when Trump came to the Tree of Life to honor those that died and to pay respects.
Yes, I really am grateful for where I grew up. The funny thing is that people here look at it like I grew up in some isolated version of Amish Paradise.. yet from where I grew up it was less than 30 minutes to Harrisburg, less than 30 minutes to Lancaster, 1.5 hours to Philly or Baltimore, 2-2.5 to DC, and 3 to NYC. If you're a beach person, Cape May was 3 hours and OCMD was 4.
The funny thing is that Peduto went out of his way to snub Trump, and then was throwing a hissy fit when Trump wouldn't bail out Pgh... he is such a petulant child, but he is therefore the perfect leader for the Peoples Republic of the East End Centre of the Universe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Independentthinking83
The economic situation hurts Pittsburgh. It is a remote city in a no mans land.
...
Plus there is an over abundance of college grads here with limited opportunities. In the Midwest or east coast there is more competition due to larger cities within a reasonable and easy drive distance for talent.
Agreed. There's literally nothing around here for hours.. so a bunch of kids come here for college from their little BFE towns in Western PA and eastern Ohio and WV.. and they pay out the wazoo because higher education in this state is so ungodly expensive.. So now they've lived for four years in the big, exciting city and they have six figures of debt. They'd kill their own mother to get a job in their field and near the city, so that they dont have to go back to their dying hometown and live in their mom's basement to hopelessly try to pay off their loans. Everybody knows this - including employers. They get a fresh batch of desperate, but educated and qualified, applicants every December and May. So why would they need to pay high wages to attract or retain talent? The over-saturation of the marketplace due to the presence of so many colleges is definitely an advantage for employers...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickms
The regional points are true, but it's not a no man's land.
There are many metros where it's much farther to get a city. Pittsburgh is 4-5 hours from the Ohio cities, plus Philly, DC and Baltimore. That's a LOT of cities within a reasonable distance, not what's a little beyond that,
Ok... so to get to Philly and back.. you've gotta take the Turnpike. From Exit 57 (Pittsburgh) to Exit 326 (Valley Forge) you're gonna pay $29.60 in tolls if you have EZPass, and $41.70 without EZPass. And its 300 miles. 25 mpg would be 12 gallons. 12 gallons at $2.45 per gallon - $29.40 in gas to get to Philly. So, a round-trip drive between Pittsburgh and Philly is $118. Plus the hassle of driving through the mountains on the Turnpike - an unpleasant experience... and one that can be white-knuckle in winter. You can drive to Cincinnati or Indianapolis more easily and cheaply than driving to Philly. The same goes for Detroit.
We are cut off in Pittsburgh. Nobody think that we're connected to Detroit or Cincinnati - but we're too far and its too difficult to travel easily from here to the East Coast cities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoNgFooCj
Western PA has a globally recognized large city known for its culture. West Virginia doesn't have that.
Pgh may be known globally for its sports teams and for its industrial past - but its certainly not known globally due to its 'culture'. We have decent museums - but nothing world-class.
Agreed. There's literally nothing around here for hours.. so a bunch of kids come here for college from their little BFE towns in Western PA and eastern Ohio and WV.. and they pay out the wazoo because higher education in this state is so ungodly expensive.. So now they've lived for four years in the big, exciting city and they have six figures of debt. They'd kill their own mother to get a job in their field and near the city, so that they dont have to go back to their dying hometown and live in their mom's basement to hopelessly try to pay off their loans. Everybody knows this - including employers. They get a fresh batch of desperate, but educated and qualified, applicants every December and May. So why would they need to pay high wages to attract or retain talent? The over-saturation of the marketplace due to the presence of so many colleges is definitely an advantage for employers...
Ok... so to get to Philly and back.. you've gotta take the Turnpike. From Exit 57 (Pittsburgh) to Exit 326 (Valley Forge) you're gonna pay $29.60 in tolls if you have EZPass, and $41.70 without EZPass. And its 300 miles. 25 mpg would be 12 gallons. 12 gallons at $2.45 per gallon - $29.40 in gas to get to Philly. So, a round-trip drive between Pittsburgh and Philly is $118. Plus the hassle of driving through the mountains on the Turnpike - an unpleasant experience... and one that can be white-knuckle in winter. You can drive to Cincinnati or Indianapolis more easily and cheaply than driving to Philly. The same goes for Detroit.
We are cut off in Pittsburgh. Nobody think that we're connected to Detroit or Cincinnati - but we're too far and its too difficult to travel easily from here to the East Coast cities.
Pgh may be known globally for its sports teams and for its industrial past - but its certainly not known globally due to its 'culture'. We have decent museums - but nothing world-class.
Indeed. It’s an endless cycle and the boosters do an excellent sales pitch to the locals that the be all end all is Pittsburgh and if you can’t get paid here it’s your fault.
Pittsburgh is isolated. I’ve lived in the Midwest and East Coast.
I was near Ft. Wayne, IN for 3 years. You are under 3 hours to Indianapolis, Toledo, Detroit, Grand Rapids, Columbus, Dayton, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Akron, which are all cities with well over 100K in population and respective metros over 500K in size and quite larger. Job opportunities are much better because companies are fighting for the quality talent. They can’t throw cheap salaries because the next city is 2 hours away. People will go to the next city or town with 50K people. Not to mention Chicago which is under 4 hrs away. There is so much manufacturing and logistics jobs in that region. It is totally different than Pittsburgh. People won’t nickel and dime you on pay. They are all competing with each other for workers. And there is a lot of opportunities that pay much better than the Pittsburgh metro and western pa. Even some of the jobs can rival salaries in the Philly, wash and Baltimore corridor. Tech is huge in Grand Rapids, Columbus and Indianapolis. I’m willing to bet it is larger than the Pittsburgh tech scene.
Pittsburgh is on an island. Over abundance of college grads and the next group of young suckers are underpaid and spoonfed the be all end all is the Pittsburgh economy.
Pittsburgh would probably do better if it identified and embraced the Midwest than east coast.
Indeed. It’s an endless cycle and the boosters do an excellent sales pitch to the locals that the be all end all is Pittsburgh and if you can’t get paid here it’s your fault.
Pittsburgh is isolated. I’ve lived in the Midwest and East Coast.
I was near Ft. Wayne, IN for 3 years. You are under 3 hours to Indianapolis, Toledo, Detroit, Grand Rapids, Columbus, Dayton, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Akron, which are all cities with well over 100K in population and respective metros over 500K in size and quite larger. Job opportunities are much better because companies are fighting for the quality talent. They can’t throw cheap salaries because the next city is 2 hours away. People will go to the next city or town with 50K people. Not to mention Chicago which is under 4 hrs away. There is so much manufacturing and logistics jobs in that region. It is totally different than Pittsburgh. People won’t nickel and dime you on pay. They are all competing with each other for workers. And there is a lot of opportunities that pay much better than the Pittsburgh metro and western pa. Even some of the jobs can rival salaries in the Philly, wash and Baltimore corridor. Tech is huge in Grand Rapids, Columbus and Indianapolis. I’m willing to bet it is larger than the Pittsburgh tech scene.
Pittsburgh is on an island. Over abundance of college grads and the next group of young suckers are underpaid and spoonfed the be all end all is the Pittsburgh economy.
Pittsburgh would probably do better if it identified and embraced the Midwest than east coast.
Completely disagree. Pittsburgh is a fairly easy drive to DC Baltimore and Philly. those cities offer more than anything in the near midwest, which have less to offer than Pittsburgh.
Completely disagree. Pittsburgh is a fairly easy drive to DC Baltimore and Philly. those cities offer more than anything in the near midwest, which have less to offer than Pittsburgh.
Its the same distance to Toronto from Pittsburgh as Philly is from Pittsburgh. Its easier and cheaper to drive to Toronto than to Philly (I-79 is straight and flat, as is I-90 and the tolls on I-90 are reasonable, and taking the QEW around the Lake is easy-peasy). But nobody here in Pgh ever tries to go with the wild claim that we're connected with the Greater Toronto Area... so I don't understand why people insist that we're connected to Philly.
Completely disagree. Pittsburgh is a fairly easy drive to DC Baltimore and Philly. those cities offer more than anything in the near midwest, which have less to offer than Pittsburgh.
You haven’t been to Grand Rapids. Downtown Grand Rapids beats Pittsburgh, Baltimore and the other Midwestern cities I mentioned that are much larger. If you want to see what a vibrant downtown looks like go there. Even during the pandemic it is still doing very well.
The Midwest has very good career opportunities and greater in number than Pittsburgh. Plus a lot of those cities offer better salaries. Manufacturing and logistics is looking for high tech workers all over that area and paying $$$. It’s not just googles etc.
Pittsburgh is a great city but it has nobody else to compete with other than maybe Cleveland. I love Erie but there is no competition there. It is probably the worst small city for finding a career in the eastern time zone. I love Erie but it is also being realistic.
Pittsburgh has trouble growing its population. Ft. Wayne, Grand Rapids, Indianapolis, Columbus do not. Even add Cincinnati to that list. If you looked at the amount of jobs available that pay in those cities you will see why.
If Pittsburgh is so flush with jobs and opportunities why has it declined for the last 70 years while those other places have increased? It’s all about work and jobs. Having world class institutions and having jobs that pay are two different things.
And nobody in the Boston wash corridor even thinks about Pittsburgh as an east coast city or as competition for workers. Most view Pittsburgh as midwest that are in the bos wash corridor.
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