2 men shot during large fight outside UPMC Children’s Hospital in Lawrenceville (Pittsburgh: sales, crime)

[tyovan4]

Two men were wounded, one critically, during a fight outside UPMC Children’s Hospital in Lawrenceville late Thursday night.

Pittsburgh police, UPMC police and University of Pittsburgh police responded to the 4400 block of Penn Avenue around 10:30 p.m. for reports of a large fight, according to city officials.

When officers arrived, they were alerted to a man with multiple gunshot wounds.
https://www.post-gazette.com/news/cr...s/202106100179

Investigators are looking into whether the fight and shooting is connected to an earlier shooting in Homewood that left a 6-year-old girl in critical condition.

https://www.wpxi.com/news/top-storie...OUBDZ7IZ3VI3I/

So, just as my previous thread didnt want to look at the closure of the Cheswick power plant in a vacuum (the timing of that closure coming so close to US Steel's announcement regarding Edgar Thomson) - I also dont want to look at this shooting in a vacuum. Two weeks ago, there was a shooting at Ross Park Mall - and now a shooting at Childrens Hospital?? This also doesn't seem to be bode well - as neither can be looked at anymore as isolated incidents. They have to be viewed in tandem as the beginning of a pattern where gun violence is now spreading to areas that were previously safe.

The shooting of a 6 year old is incredibly tragic - but not unexpected in Homewood. Shootings at Childrens Hospital are unexpected.

What bothers me the most is how local liberals respond to gun violence. Pedutohead and Rep Dan Frankel had an event in Schenley Plaza within the last few weeks where they were again advocating for municipalities to have the right under state law to enact their own gun control ordinances. They view the answer to gun violence as passing more laws that will only further restrict the ability of law-abiding citizens to exercise their Second Amendment rights while having no effect on illegal gun possession or use.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch Prince Stevie Zappala and his District Attorney's office decided to charge those two 17 year olds (who used 3 pistols that they illegally possessed to bust a cap inside Ross Park Mall) as juveniles!!
To me, if you're man enough to illegally possess a pistol and shoot it inside of a public venue like a shopping mall - then you should be man enough to face the consequences of being charged as an adult.

It makes my blood boil that liberals answer is to impose more laws - but they refuse to fully utilize existing laws to punish transgressors. Can't charge those 17 year olds as big boys - gotta send em to Shuman to get a slap on the wrist before releasing them back out into their hood to terrorize and kill innocent people. Can't advocate for mandatory minimum sentences for gun crimes - because mandatory minimums are racist and part of the Jim Crow criminal justice system that disproportionately marginalizes underprivileged communities.

This race-obsession gripping our society is going to take us into some ugly places as a society and will eventually inevitably produce some very ugly pushback.

I'll agree with left-wing advocates and say that American policing culture has become a clown show and that the police need drastic reforms regarding officer discipline and reform/abolition of the FOP and qualified immunity. The police certainly need to be more accountable

BUT

Why don't left-wing advocates also demand that those involved in committing gun crimes are also held accountable? How about we actually start prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law clowns who shoot guns at the mall or at a pediatric hospital???

Why can't we as a society have both? Why can't we hold our police to a higher standard of accountability, while also holding those who actually use guns to commit crimes to a higher standard of accountability??

Im afraid that this left-wing hippie combination of neutering the police while babying violent criminals is going to produce more tragic headlines like what we've seen in the last two weeks - gun violence will continue to spread to more and more places that were once seen as unequivocably safe.

[Reggiezz]

I think the pols are happier if perps kill each other rather than answer embarrassing questions about the demographics of the prison population. For a politician, collateral damage is a small price to pay to avoid uncomfortable topics with the media.

[PghPatriot]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

So, just as my previous thread didnt want to look at the closure of the Cheswick power plant in a vacuum (the timing of that closure coming so close to US Steel's announcement regarding Edgar Thomson) - I also dont want to look at this shooting in a vacuum. Two weeks ago, there was a shooting at Ross Park Mall - and now a shooting at Childrens Hospital?? T

Right....everything is connected.


We shouldn't view your post in a vacuum.



You posted this yesterday, and now there's a woman who dresses in animal onesies sought in shoplifting cases.


https://www.wpxi.com/news/trending/w...LAF3L7YCUPJP4/



I think the two things are related

[norcider]

Public shootings in "safe" places have been going on for decades, and long before the woke crowd started demanding whatever the hell they're demanding. Maybe this country has a fascination with guns and violence and actually doesn't have a damn thing to do with somebody's political stance? When there's 2 guns for every person in the US, we have a problem. How do you reign that in? Oh, I am a 2A supporter and own multiple firearms and I have my license to carry.

[fat lou]

A brawl ending in a shootout on the streets of Lawrenceville. That's a story straight out of 2005. Things do seem to be going in reverse in some ways. My guess is that that will continue.

[eschaton]

Although I had strong opinions on gun control when I was younger, this is one of the (few) issues I've moderated on significantly. I do believe that European-style gun control would significantly lower the homicide rate, but I realize that legal gun ownership is important to a lot of Americans, and as a culture we've accepted the trade-off of more gun deaths in exchange for free access to guns. But I simply don't think this is even in the top 10 most important issues for the country to address.

Logistically speaking, it is all-but-impossible to stop guns from getting into the hands of criminals under the system that currently exists in the U.S. I do think private gun ownership is compatible with restricting guns from being in the hands of criminals, but we'd need to have a state licensing system for gun use (similar to cars) and a national gun registry so we could keep track of where guns are. Only around 15% of guns used in crime are literally stolen (the rest purchased through straw purchases, shady but licensed gun sellers, bought legitimately, ect.) meaning there's a lot of ways to restrict gun sales which would at the very least make the cost of guns in the underground market much more expensive - which would likely keep them out of reach of the stupid teenagers who perpetrate most of these shootings.

There's a big difference between arguing that the police need to be to be more accountable and just random citizens need to be more accountable. The police are public employees, and the police force is a system of government. This means they should be accountable to the voters, and there are a lot of legal and administrative changes which can be made to nudge people into proper behavior.

In contrast, arguing personal responsibility is generally speaking a cop out for doing nothing. In any given behavior, some people will be responsible, and some people will not, whether it's something relatively innocuous like overeating, something which can be personally devastating like having financial sense, or something which has a huge impact on others like murder. The primary reason for this has nothing to do with free will or the morals instilled upon them by their parents. People just naturally differ when it comes to traits like impulsivity, the ability to plan ahead, and concern for others. There's also big differences in terms of some of these traits depending upon the age of an individual (there's a reason almost all shootings are perpetrated by men between 13 and 30 - it's an extreme form of "sowing wild oats" during young adulthood) and the local peer group (people learn how to behave based upon what they see their peers doing - if you're 12 and know 16 year olds who shot someone, chances are much higher you'll do it too). There's all kinds of interventions we could do which may help, but just doing retributive justice doesn't appear to work - considering we did that for decades with little-to-no impact.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by fat lou

A brawl ending in a shootout on the streets of Lawrenceville. That's a story straight out of 2005. Things do seem to be going in reverse in some ways. My guess is that that will continue.

Bingo

[szug-bot]

how is this even discussed without the obvious? its the sub-culture of guns + urban life. is this shooting at the hospital extraordinary?

this is how people think how they react, their values....you cant legislate human behaviour. that is what it is all about, not gun laws - too lax or not, etc.

these people are just idiots. in a time of amazing luxury, food, comforts, health, and everything else, if someone winds up in a situation like this, it is their fault, their own doing.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

how is this even discussed without the obvious? its the sub-culture of guns + urban life. is this shooting at the hospital extraordinary?

this is how people think how they react, their values....you cant legislate human behaviour. that is what it is all about, not gun laws - too lax or not, etc.

these people are just idiots. in a time of amazing luxury, food, comforts, health, and everything else, if someone winds up in a situation like this, it is their fault, their own doing.

It’s getting worse and being “too lax” will enable it to do so. On the bright side, social workers should be in full force soon to ease these situations and straighten these criminals right out.

[Charley Barker]

This is where I have tremendous empathy for cops. We ask them to guard us against an armed populace where even the most minor slight or dispute is settled from the muzzle of a firearm. If you watch the local news and read the local press you realize this is just as likely to happen in Lawrence Co. as it is in Lawrenceville. The only solutions are stronger families, stronger communities, economic justice, and, dare I say, moral values (secular or religious). Sadly this is a problem all over the country, not just around here.