New drive-throughs soon to be banned across most of the City of Pittsburgh. (Johnstown: Home Depot, live in)

[gg]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

And the patrons for these new restaurants with no parking will come there how?

THe citiy residents will drive just like the suburban restaurant goers. Difference is, the city residents will tell everyone how walkable it is in the city on forums like this one.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by gg

THe citiy residents will drive just like the suburban restaurant goers. Difference is, the city residents will tell everyone how walkable it is in the city on forums like this one.

That's what I figured. Then everyone will get pissed off that there's no parking and stop going because it's so frustrating, the venues will close and residents will bemoan the fact that they can't have nice things.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

And the patrons for these new restaurants with no parking will come there how?

They’re supposed to walk, bicycle, or take public transportation. Vehicles and parking spots icky.

[bike_lanes]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

I'm also curious - why is eliminating parking minimums such a positive??

Why is the government mandating private businesses to build off street parking a positive?

[Reggiezz]

Originally Posted by bike_lanes

Why is the government mandating private businesses to build off street parking a positive?

You'll see if you live there.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by erieguy

They’re supposed to walk, bicycle, or take public transportation. Vehicles and parking spots icky.

Yeah, I know I'd like to go out to a nice restaurant and a night on the town all dressed up and ride the bus (no matter what transportation agency).

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Yeah, I know I'd like to go out to a nice restaurant and a night on the town all dressed up and ride the bus (no matter what transportation agency).

Or walk or bicycle in a suit, especially when it’s hot and humid.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

so far, in this thread there is 100% agreement.

please explain. i would think there is an obvious argument that eliminating parking minimums, eliminating drive-throughs has its "pros".

let's hear why updating the zoning code is all about that everyone here is pleased with it.

I can give you a concrete example, which was covered in City Paper earlier this year. An effort to convert a vacant former garage into a "food hall" which began in 2018 has gone nowhere because of these parking minimums. The business owners have broad support of the local community, and successfully won a variance from zoning, but a single individual (who has blocked other projects in Lawrenceville) sued in court and reversed the ZBA's decision. The owners have since spent hundreds of thousands on legal bills on a project which is literally only four parking spaces short of the requirements under zoning. With this change, this project will actually become feasible.

Not to mention I actually watched the presentation on the change, and it was noted that Pittsburgh's decades-old parking requirements for restaurants are higher than for any other businesses within similarly-zoned areas, and much higher than in peer cities or even some suburban areas. It's even really inconsistent, as small restaurants (under 2,500 square feet) currently don't have to offer any parking, but larger ones have substantial parking requirements.

[gg]

Originally Posted by eschaton

An effort to convert a vacant former garage into a "food hall" which began in 2018 has gone nowhere because of these parking minimums. The business owners have broad support of the local community, and successfully won a variance from zoning, but a single individual (who has blocked other projects in Lawrenceville) sued in court and reversed the ZBA's decision. The owners have since spent hundreds of thousands on legal bills on a project which is literally only four parking spaces short of the requirements under zoning. With this change, this project will actually become feasible.

Not to mention I actually watched the presentation on the change, and it was noted that Pittsburgh's decades-old parking requirements for restaurants are higher than for any other businesses within similarly-zoned areas, and much higher than in peer cities or even some suburban areas. It's even really inconsistent, as small restaurants (under 2,500 square feet) currently don't have to offer any parking, but larger ones have substantial parking requirements.

Here is some history on the food hall. I have to admit, Lawrenceville is crazy crowded with very little parking. Do you really feel in this case it is a good idea to get that food hall in there? I would like to see the parking issue better served in areas with poverty more than Lawrenceville that is filled to capacity.

https://www.wpxi.com/news/top-storie...eet/955469706/

Here is the saga according to those that want to open the food hall.

https://www.lawrencehallpgh.com/update

The busier Lawrenceville gets the greater the possibility of it turning into the South Side situation. It hasn't been discovered quite yet and no bars are catering to a more sketchy crowd. YET!

Seriously, do you think a food hall is a good idea there?

*** I am all for growth and less restriction in general however. I wish it was super easy to open things up in the city. At the end of the day, I probably hope it opens.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by gg

Here is some history on the food hall. I have to admit, Lawrenceville is crazy crowded with very little parking. Do you really feel in this case it is a good idea to get that food hall in there? I would like to see the parking issue better served in areas with poverty more than Lawrenceville that is filled to capacity.

https://www.wpxi.com/news/top-storie...eet/955469706/

Here is the saga according to those that want to open the food hall.

https://www.lawrencehallpgh.com/update

The busier Lawrenceville gets the greater the possibility of it turning into the South Side situation. It hasn't been discovered quite yet and no bars are catering to a more sketchy crowd. YET!

Seriously, do you think a food hall is a good idea there?

*** I am all for growth and less restriction in general however. I wish it was super easy to open things up in the city. At the end of the day, I probably hope it opens.

Do I think a food hall would be successful in Lawrenceville? Absolutely - though of course the caveats related to COVID do apply.

Do I think this is a trade up from the status quo of a big empty warehouse fronting on Butler? Again, absolutely. I used to live very close to this structure and know it well.

Do I think this will add to the parking congestion issues in Lawrenceville? Yes, but on the other hand, they are only four spaces short, and four spaces will not make a big difference in neighborhood congestion. When I lived in the neighborhood we already figured out not to leave the neighborhood to socialize on Friday or Saturday night, since someone would take the space in front of our house. So we stuck to hanging out in the neighborhood. I presume the majority of customers would be people hoofing it from the nearby blocks, which have thousands of yuppies now to go around.

South Side had some particulars which made it go into decline Lawrenceville did not. The main issue that occurred there was a movement to turn all of the residential side streets into permit parking. This was purportedly done to cut down on bar traffic, but it was initially not enforced late at night, meaning it did little for bar traffic. But it hurt much more all non-bar businesses, as it made it hard for daytime shoppers to find anywhere to park. It was particularly toxic for employees of the business - many of which had to close because they couldn't find enough qualified applicants who either lived in the neighborhood or could bus it, and had no off-street parking to provide. There have been efforts to put permit parking in place in Lawrenceville, but they have all sputtered out because of what an abject failure South Side's experience has been.