Sprindale coal power plant to close this month (Pittsburgh, California: house, purchasing)

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by erieguy

The fact is that electric heat is more expensive than natural gas and heating oil.

Nope, not thinking that, unless you think electric vehicles provide the same “operating” emissions as fossil fuel vehicles?

If people are buying a vehicle, there’s almost zero percent chance they’re never driving again, lol.

Except it's not a fact as it depends on a lot of factors. Our friends just converted their home from natural gas to heat pumps in coastal Maine because it would be *cheaper*, and I paid for a similar though intended to be less rugged system for my mother's home in Southern California because it is cheaper.


Right, most people intend to drive their vehicles, so the emissions for operating EVs being much lower generally leads to lower lifetime emissions than the equivalent fossil fuel vehicles by a considerable margin.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

Except it's not a fact as it depends on a lot of factors. Our friends just converted their home from natural gas to heat pumps in coastal Maine because it would be *cheaper*, and I paid for a similar though intended to be less rugged system for my mother's home in Southern California because it is cheaper.


Right, most people intend to drive their vehicles, so the emissions for operating EVs being much lower generally leads to lower lifetime emissions than the equivalent fossil fuel vehicles by a considerable margin.

Link to electric heat being *cheaper* than natural gas and heating oil?

That’s what I said to begin with

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Link to electric heat being *cheaper* than natural gas and heating oil?

That’s what I said to begin with

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gas-fur...mp-11620846653


There are many articles like that in regards to heat pumps for heating over the last few years. My answer to you remains the same--it depends on your local context such as the climate you're in which can vary from one location to another even in the same metropolitan area, what type of home you have and thus what kind of systems you can install, what your rate for gas/heating oil is and what your rate for electricity is, and if there are any incentives available, and thus, a lot of factors. It was an easy choice for my mother's home in southern CA, but what was surprising was our friends in coastal Maine who installed it because they said it came out cheaper with a payback period of just a few years. For you though? You'll have to calculate that on your own, because it really depends on many factors specific to your home, its location, and your utility rates.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gas-fur...mp-11620846653


There are many articles like that in regards to heat pumps for heating over the last few years. My answer to you remains the same--it depends on your local context such as the climate you're in which can vary from one location to another even in the same metropolitan area, what type of home you have and thus what kind of systems you can install, what your rate for gas/heating oil is and what your rate for electricity is, and if there are any incentives available, and thus, a lot of factors. It was an easy choice for my mother's home in southern CA, but what was surprising was our friends in coastal Maine who installed it because they said it came out cheaper with a payback period of just a few years. For you though? You'll have to calculate that on your own, because it really depends on many factors specific to your home, its location, and your utility rates.

I’m not a WSJ subscriber but I’m sure you have other links?…and my response to you remains the same. We’re talking about local climate, and many local folks that condemn fossil fuels but use them everyday because electric heat will cost them more, and swapping out their vehicles with electric/hybrid vehicles will also be an expense.

Your friends in coastal Maine sound like an exception.

Yep, calculated it, natural gas is cheaper, just like it is for most everyone because natural gas and heating oil is cheaper than electric heat.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by erieguy

I’m not a WSJ subscriber but I’m sure you have other links?…and my response to you remains the same. We’re talking about local climate, and many local folks that condemn fossil fuels but use them everyday because electric heat will cost them more, and swapping out their vehicles with electric/hybrid vehicles will also be an expense.

Your friends in coastal Maine sound like an exception.

Yep, calculated it, natural gas is cheaper, just like it is for most everyone because natural gas and heating oil is cheaper than electric heat.

How incapable are you? I'm not going to do something this basic for you--I don't care if you personally end up saving money or not. I'm just letting others know that you were wrong on that account of saying all electric heat is more expensive (which you changed from saying "all electric heat" to "for most everyone" though even that's not true), and others know how to use google or get around a flimsy paywall.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

How incapable are you? I'm not going to do something this basic for you--I don't care if you personally end up saving money or not. I'm just letting others know that you were wrong on that account of saying all electric heat is more expensive (which you changed from saying "all electric heat" to "for most everyone" though even that's not true), and others know how to use google or get around a flimsy paywall.

You’re the one making the argument, so provide the information if you want to be taken seriously.

I said for most everyone because I gave you the benefit of the doubt that their could be cheaper options, but you haven’t provided any, so I’ll stick to my statement that it’s cheaper for everyone.

If you have other links not behind a paywall, provide them, rather than making flimsy statements.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by scrmc

Excellent points.

Lol. No proof no points.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by erieguy

You’re the one making the argument, so provide the information if you want to be taken seriously.

I said for most everyone because I gave you the benefit of the doubt that their could be cheaper options, but you haven’t provided any, so I’ll stick to my statement that it’s cheaper for everyone.

If you have other links not behind a paywall, provide them, rather than making flimsy statements.

Originally Posted by erieguy

Lol. No proof no points.

Lol. You started this off with the claim that all electric heat is more expensive without any proof:

Originally Posted by erieguy

All electric heat is considerably more expensive than gas or heating oil.

Doesn’t the lower emissions of buying the electric vehicle outweigh the cost of keeping the fossil fuel using vehicle?

Lol. You say there's no proof, but you can't even get around a basic paywall to a link that I already provided or learn how to google for the many similar articles that are easily found. There are even multiple research papers including ones over the last few years or I can go potentially go through some of the power and thermal calculations, but if you don't know how to google for basic articles or get around the paywall of a fairly well known mag like WSJ, then I don't think there's much use in helping you, because it's just sort of beyond help. Lol!


My point's already made and the important thing is that people don't get waylaid by your incorrect comment. Those people are likely able to look things up or get around a simple paywall if they are now actually interested in getting a heat pump. That's never going to be for you though, and that's fine.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

Lol. You started this off with the claim that all electric heat is more expensive without any proof:




Lol. You say there's no proof, but you can't even get around a basic paywall to a link that I already provided or learn how to google for the dozens of similar articles that abound. There are even multiple research papers including ones over the last few years or I can go potentially go through some of the power and thermal calculations, but if you don't know how to google for basic articles or get around the paywall of a fairly well known mag like WSJ, then I don't think there's much use in helping you, because it's just sort of beyond help. Lol!

You’re the one saying I’m wrong but can’t prove it.

In other words, you have no proof, are bringing up research papers, and just an article behind a paywall, lol.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by scrmc

Again, excellent point.

Even better if there was proof. Hopefully he can provide some.