Pittsburgh real estate update (Penn Hills, McKeesport: unemployment, income, place to live)

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by gg

This type of mayor will not help the cause down there.

The mayor is convening a panel to conduct a study to develop a plan to apply for a grant to address the issue.

[gg]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

As long as more Class-B and lower vacant office space Downtown continues to be converted to residential, and as long as demand to live Downtown remains surprisingly strong, then the long-term forecast for Downtown is bright and sunny. There are now enough people living Downtown to sustain a mini-Target, which is a good thing. A few thousand more people living Downtown will bring more retailers, restaurants, and, yes, employers back Downtown, too.

It could go that way. I mean the bar is VERY low that we are excited about a mini-Target in our big downtown, but I guess it is something since our bar became that low. It just seems like yesterday downtown had people and things going on. The contrast is amazing in only 6 years. Shame what all those protests due to a presidential change did down there. If a logical person looked at a presidential change from this past election, they would have to admit, life was much better before our current leader. Thankfully our mayor doesn't have to dictate if investors start converting more and more office space to housing. I hope that trend continues in a big way, then I would agree. Downtown could be good again.

[Higherho]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Same here. I bought a small older home with small rooms, and I couldn't be happier with our decision. We love our home---quirks and all. The problem is most middle-class/professional class Millennial home-buyers are the HGTV types who want to buy a historic home that has been gutted into an open concept and has had all of its original woodwork and trim work painted gray or white. If that's what today's buyers want, then that's what today's buyers are going to get.

The consumer isn’t always right. If you keep building the same thing and everyone is doing it, people will be forced to buy it. I don’t buy the argument that it’s “all the buyers” fault. Consumers loved Blackberries, and people were copying that. Until Apple came around. Constructs are in place (especially when huge conglomerates) centralize everything that you’re forced to buy these items because A, thats all there is or B they inflated prices so much that you have to buy cheap stuff. It isn’t as simple as you’re making it out to be. Not to mention competition does not exist in construction of homes. The largest builders are owned by Wall Street companies. Warran buffet owns the largest and they make over 60% of all new homes. Zillow, hedge funds, etc buy up homes as well to make rents higher so that the cost of homes are higher. They thing of the bottom line.

I do overall agree that our culture / character has a part to play in it.

[gg]

$40 million down the tubes, but hey we have great leadership. lol

https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/n...-investigates/

[jea6321]

Originally Posted by Higherho

It isn’t as simple as you’re making it out to be. Not to mention competition does not exist in construction of homes. The largest builders are owned by Wall Street companies. Warran buffet owns the largest and they make over 60% of all new homes. Zillow, hedge funds, etc buy up homes as well to make rents higher so that the cost of homes are higher. They thing of the bottom line.

This is pretty inaccurate to be fair. There is a lot of competition in home building in the US. And we are talking flips here, no mega builders such as toll brothers, NVR, DRB, Horton, etc are in the flipping one off homes business. Just not a viable business practice for them at all.

Several large home builders are traded public companies yes. They aren't "owned by wall st". they are public. You or I are free to buy shares of those companies.

some of the large ones are still privately owned.

Warren buffet does not own the largest and the largest doesn't do anywhere near 60% of the total new market. D R Horton does abut 10% as the largest builder in the US. NVR who has a big presence here in our region ( Ryan, Heartland) is around 3% of total market share.

I do believe Blackrock owns the largest % of D R Horton. And if any company should be on peoples radar for concern in the housing market, please look further into Blackrock.

[Higherho]

Originally Posted by jea6321

This is pretty inaccurate to be fair. There is a lot of competition in home building in the US. And we are talking flips here, no mega builders such as toll brothers, NVR, DRB, Horton, etc are in the flipping one off homes business. Just not a viable business practice for them at all.

Several large home builders are traded public companies yes. They aren't "owned by wall st". they are public. You or I are free to buy shares of those companies.

True about the flips, I broaden the conversation as the discussion was about “if the buyers keep buying, it’s their fault” discussion. To which I pointed out how the consumer does not have much say in any of this. That is why I brought up the whole market.

When the majority of home building is owned by the top 1% of wealthy individuals, that isn’t a-lot of competition. If you are stating your average middle class individual to buy shares in a company and you want to have a “Say” in what goes on, you’re not being honest. To even gain that kind of foothold you would need millions to 10s of millions of dollars of investments (and billions if you want a majority). When the majority is owned by individuals on Wall Street, it is owned by Wall Street. The day to day individual has no say.

You can buy shares in the company! With D.R Horton at 92 dollars a share, please tell me how much do you think an individual needs to get to have a say in their matters? D.R Horton’s largest share holders are all hedge funds and or other wall Street companies. Let alone it’s only going to get worse, over 125 billion dollars in homes were purchased by one single company (black stone), simply to rent, raise prices, take advance of the pros of having property, and inflating house prices (this isn’t new by any means).

Warren buffet does not own the largest and the largest doesn't do anywhere near 60% of the total new market. D R Horton does abut 10% as the largest builder in the US. NVR who has a big presence here in our region ( Ryan, Heartland) is around 3% of total market share.

Yes he does. Which was over 49% in 2018. Granted, I should specify manufactured homes, my bad on that little tid bit. Still this market is over 40 billion dollars worth.

“Clayton also dominates the manufactured home market, where profit margins are greater, and where it commands a 49 percent share, Buffett said in February”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1I51ZG

Clayton Homes (or Clayton) is the largest builder of manufactured housing and modular homes in the United States. It is owned by Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway. Clayton Homes' corporate headquarters are in Maryville, Tennessee

I do believe Blackrock owns the largest % of D R Horton. And if any company should be on peoples radar for concern in the housing market, please look further into Blackrock.

Capital research is currently the largest shareholder of D R Horton. Black rock is 2nd if vanguard did not purchase anymore to retain their position. BlackRock was 3rd for a while until they bought a few million more shares back in 2021 I think.

[Reggiezz]

Originally Posted by gg

$40 million down the tubes, but hey we have great leadership. lol

https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/n...-investigates/

My bet is the money is mysteriously gone. All these politicians used the Covid emergency to steal everything not nailed down.

[jea6321]

Originally Posted by Higherho

True about the flips, I broaden the conversation as the discussion was about “if the buyers keep buying, it’s their fault” discussion. To which I pointed out how the consumer does not have much say in any of this. That is why I brought up the whole market.

When the majority of home building is owned by the top 1% of wealthy individuals, that isn’t a-lot of competition. If you are stating your average middle class individual to buy shares in a company and you want to have a “Say” in what goes on, you’re not being honest. To even gain that kind of foothold you would need millions to 10s of millions of dollars of investments (and billions if you want a majority). When the majority is owned by individuals on Wall Street, it is owned by Wall Street. The day to day individual has no say.

You can buy shares in the company! With D.R Horton at 92 dollars a share, please tell me how much do you think an individual needs to get to have a say in their matters? D.R Horton’s largest share holders are all hedge funds and or other wall Street companies. Let alone it’s only going to get worse, over 125 billion dollars in homes were purchased by one single company (black stone), simply to rent, raise prices, take advance of the pros of having property, and inflating house prices (this isn’t new by any means).



Yes he does. Which was over 49% in 2018. Granted, I should specify manufactured homes, my bad on that little tid bit. Still this market is over 40 billion dollars worth.

“Clayton also dominates the manufactured home market, where profit margins are greater, and where it commands a 49 percent share, Buffett said in February”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1I51ZG

Clayton Homes (or Clayton) is the largest builder of manufactured housing and modular homes in the United States. It is owned by Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway. Clayton Homes' corporate headquarters are in Maryville, Tennessee



Capital research is currently the largest shareholder of D R Horton. Black rock is 2nd if vanguard did not purchase anymore to retain their position. BlackRock was 3rd for a while until they bought a few million more shares back in 2021 I think.

I never mentioned that an individual buying shares of a common stock would have any say in daily business, nor would any rational person expect that. Millions or 10's of millions doesn't do it either, thats honestly not much money in the big picture of public companies.

for Clayton, they are the biggest mobile home (which the industry loves to market as modular/manufactured) maker. Mobile homes are registered by the DMV with title. They technically are not houses unless placed and secured to a permanent solid foundation. They are also one of the only type of "real estate" ( I use the term loosely here) that has a proven track record of real world depreciation vs the dollar or inflation. It is literally one of the worst investments one can make. Now, owning mobile home parks can be one of the best, but is somewhat predatory in nature and takes a real specific type of individual to manage. Definitely not for me, I have been involved with several mobile home parks, will not do so again and would never buy one.

Anyway, no hard feelings. Was not trying to attack you personally.

[Higherho]

Originally Posted by jea6321

Anyway, no hard feelings. Was not trying to attack you personally.

None taken, I thought it was a good discussion

[BUILD PENN SQUARE]

$1,965,000 for a 2 bedroom in the strip district

basically a million dollars per bedroom



https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...2_M42524-26217

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