In five words or less, how would you rate Pittsburgh's job market? (Denver: loan, good schools)

[xyzpdq]

Originally Posted by COPANUT

when did you get here

I was born and raised here, left when I was 21, came back 5 years ago, and will be leaving again soon.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by xyzpdq

Oh please, guylocke, put a sock in it... this from a guy who LOVES to blow sunshine up people's a**es about how great Pittsburgh's economy is, but who is himself leaving Pittsburgh for Seattle (or may have left already)because he can make more money there.

Leaving a city for a better job, whether that means more money, more responsibilities (or fewer!); to experience a different part of the country for more than a vacation; or whatever; is a time-honored American tradition. Here on the Pittsburgh forum there is a Newcomer's Guide sticky! People come, and people go. My HS sweetheart from Beaver Falls went to Seattle and has been there for 30+ years. Guylocke, I wish you luck on your move.

[likepgh]

Originally Posted by Katiana

....
Education: I assume you mean college/university education:
National Universities Rankings - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report

Pittsburgh including the entire metro area has 2 universities ranked in the top national universities 100 by USNews. While I have some 'issues" with USN myself, I think the top 100 are roughly correct, just not always in the order they rank them. Other cities with two universities in the top 100: St. Louis, MO; Atlanta, GA; Syracuse, NY: PHiladelphia (bigger than Pgh). Boston and its suburbs are clearly #1 with 9, LA and its burbs have 6 (much larger than Pgh though), DC has 3 plus the U of MD in its burbs. Denver and its burbs have 3.

It is one thing to say that education is a major "industry" in Pittsburgh; it's another thing to say they are a national leader in education. ...

I guess it depends on what measure you use. In terms of economic impact and educational "leadership" I would look toward something like the American Association of Universities (AAU) which is the organization of the 62 leading research universities in the US and Canada, rather than the US News beauty contest (which is largely focused on undergraduate education anyway).
These are the 62 schools that produce the most PhD's, that have the most sponsored research underway, and that largely set the agenda for North American education.

Pittsburgh looks pretty good in terms of AAU members per metro area:

I'm going with CMSA/mega-regions here which lowers Pittsburgh's ranking so I can't be accused of too much favoritism:

NY: 6 (NYU, Columbia, Stonybrook, Rutgers, Princeton, Yale)

LA: 4 (UCLA, USC, Cal Tech, UC Irvine)
Boston: 4 (Harvard, MIT, Brandeis, Brown)

Chicago: 2 (Chicago, Northwestern)
DC/Balt: 2 (MD, Hopkins)
Bay Area: 2 (Berkeley, Stanford)
Pittsburgh: 2 (CMU, Pitt)
Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill: 2 (Duke, North Carolina)

Unless, I've missed something no other region has more than 1 AAU member.

NY, LA, Chicago, DC/Balt, Bay Area= the top 5 CMSA's and Boston = #7 (notice that Philadelphia at #6 is missing--you could thrown Princeton to Philadelphia and give it 2 if you want to include it on this list.)

Pittsburgh (at #22) and Raleigh/Durham (at #41!) make it to the top 8 (or 9 if you rig it for Philadelphia) on this list. I would say that's impressive and allows Pittsburgh to claim to be "a [not the] national leader in education/research."

Now, of course, per capita, that means the AAU members in the college towns (Penn State, Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, etc.) are having the greatest direct impact on their local economies.

But if you are talking about major cities (excuse me, urban areas) with diversified economies, then I think Pittsburgh looks pretty good on this list.
(And maybe Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill ought to just be considered the king of the college town list.)

How much the research activity in Pittsburgh spills over indirectly into the local economy in terms of start-ups and business spin-offs is a good question and seems to be something we need to work on here. But certainly the direct impact is huge and the potential for a big pay-off is there.

[By the way, I agree with Katiana's point in another sub-discussion on this thread: people move around a lot--that's the American way. In fact, a forum like this probably wouldn't exist if not for that. So let's try to separate people's personal circumstances from their arguments.]

One other point: I would say that there isn't actually *one* Pittsburgh job market. Depending on the industry/field, there are several and some operate locally, some regionally, some nationally and internationally. This makes general comparisons/statements pretty hard to sustain.

[Katarina Witt]

As I said, I have some "issues" with USN as well, and I don't have access to the AAU membership list. I agree that colleges in true "college towns" such as State College; Champaign-Urbana, IL; Bloomington and W. Lafayette, IN; Iowa City and Ames, IA, etc are the economic powerhouses of those towns. I lived in Champaign-Urbana for seven years; most adults in those cities (twins, how cute!) work for the University of Illinois or provide goods and services to the people who work for the U and the students.

Northfield, MN has 17,000 people and two nationally-ranked liberal arts colleges-Carleton and St. Olaf. It's even more of a college town than the above, yet no one thinks of Northfield as a national leader in education. Which was my point. The % of people in Pittsburgh working in higher ed is small compared to those places. It's hard to define what an educational leader is, as well.

BTW, Boulder and Golden are in the Denver CSA or whatever it's called now; are CU-Boulder and Colorado School of Mines AAU schools? What about the University of Denver?

BTW: We both came up with two for Pittsburgh, and they were both the same schools, though I didn't name mine!

Edit: You also need at least a master's and generally a PhD to teach at a major university.

[guylocke]

how great Pittsburgh's economy is, but who is himself leaving Pittsburgh for Seattle (or may have left already)because he can make more money there.

I'd like to see you point out some posts where I boast how "great" the Pittsburgh economy is. Really - you can try. At the most, I've been optimistic and have pointed out facts that include that Pittsburgh's economy seems to be transitioning better than most other "rust-best" cities. I have never once claimed the economy was great here or even close to great.

I'd also like you to find a post where I said that I'm moving to Seattle because I'd make more money there [or actually, because I'll make more money here, I am settled in ]

As a matter of fact, I would have been much more financially sound staying in Pittsburgh. While I do make a few thousand dollars more a year in Seattle, the cost of living on the west coast is WAAAAAAAAAAAY more than a "few thousand dollars a year more."

I moved to Seattle because I am young, adventurous, and wanted to be in a city and state that ensured gay people had more opportunities, rights, privileges, and responsibilities. I've made that clear many MANY many times, I did NOT leave Pittsburgh for ANY reason relating to my dislike of the city or economic reasons. I love and miss Pittsburgh. I am loving Seattle, too, btw, very much. A "Pittsburgh cheerleader" CAN like more than one part of the country, you know.

Pittsburgh's job market has been fairly stable this year, even more than stable, it has been creating jobs during a time when almost every major US city is losing them. That being said, I can no longer truly say that, August was not a good month for Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh did lose jobs. The recession finally hit home, I assume. However, in the grand scheme of things (ESPECIALLY compared to other cities like Pittsburgh and ESPECIALLY regarding the housing crisis), Pittsburgh is doing okay if you ask me.

And thank you, Katiana.

[Katarina Witt]

A "Pittsburgh cheerleader" CAN like more than one part of the country, you know.

You're welcome. Glad you're enjoying Seattle.

[likepgh]

Sorry, I forgot to post the website with the membership list of the AAU:
AAU Members by Admission

The AAU is a more "exclusive" group than the Carnegie Research-Extensive category which is bigger (see: Carnegie Doctoral/Research Universities-Extensive)

Colorado is in the AAU; Denver is a research-extensive university but not in AAU. I don't know where Colorado School of Mines gets classified.

When you go to the Carnegie listings, NYC, LA, DC, Boston get even bigger; Philly, Denver, Atlanta and other places join the list of multiple schools.

Anyway, I guess I'm just trying to say that Pittsburgh plays in a bigger league in terms of research and education than one might expect given where it ranks in metro area population.

In 5 words: 2 AAU; more than most.

[goodgirl49]

Originally Posted by xyzpdq

I was born and raised here, left when I was 21, came back 5 years ago, and will be leaving again soon.

Where do you think you will go?

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by likepgh

Sorry, I forgot to post the website with the membership list of the AAU:
AAU Members by Admission

The AAU is a more "exclusive" group than the Carnegie Research-Extensive category which is bigger (see: Carnegie Doctoral/Research Universities-Extensive)

Colorado is in the AAU; Denver is a research-extensive university but not in AAU. I don't know where Colorado School of Mines gets classified.

When you go to the Carnegie listings, NYC, LA, DC, Boston get even bigger; Philly, Denver, Atlanta and other places join the list of multiple schools.

Anyway, I guess I'm just trying to say that Pittsburgh plays in a bigger league in terms of research and education than one might expect given where it ranks in metro area population.

In 5 words: 2 AAU; more than most.

Thanks. Funny that CSM doesn't show up on any of these lists. It is ranked #80 on USN, (CU is # 77), is known to be more difficult to get into for a Colorado resident (there is a matrix for this). Colorado State in #125, and is on the Caregie list, but it's easier to get into than either one. Oh, well.

Yes, Pittsburgh is doing well with its universities.

[raubre]

Originally Posted by xyzpdq

I'll start:

Abysmal. Depressing. Miserable. Anemic. Pathetic.

One word....

"YAWN"