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Everyone has their own opinion - and unfortunately most of our opinions have to do with prior experience. I have had my share of issues with dogs - but in my experience, the dogs being on leash or off leash is not the issue. It's is always an issue with the owners. Dogs that are not trained or encouraged to be aggressive cause problems regardless of whether they are on leash - I've heard of dogs breaking through windows to get to people passing by, now we walk by a dog on a chain that is screwed into the ground that will come of out of the ground any day, and where I used to live, we had to avoid a young kid who couldn't control his extremely dog aggressive dogs. All of these dogs were "contained" and were more of a threat to me than any dog in Frick Park.
And just an fyi - I don't think of myself as "scurrying" to leash to my dog - I see people who may be uncomfortable around my two large dogs and I leash them. There is no need to scurry as my dogs always within several feet and come to my side immediately when I call them. I understand that a 90 lbs rottie and 50lbs boxer/pit might be scary to some people (they are very friendly but because strangers are just as unpredictable, they are trained never to approach people).
I understand that if my dogs hurt someone or someone's dog, I am responsible - however I have more faith in them than I do most people. People all take risks in some aspect of another - I just consider this a very low risk. You also have to remember that the people whose dogs kill other dogs and people and although the owners seem dumbfounded, when you actually look closer, the dogs/owners have had long histories of poor behavior. They act dumbfounded because it's a much better way to act than to say, "yeah, I thought they might do that" - especially with criminal charges at stake. Then you find out that the dog has been a problem dog for years.
Wow! I'm amazed to see so many people afraid of dogs. Mine would lick you to death. That's all.
Lets make one thing clear, I'm not afraid of dogs.
I am more than upset at the number of dog owners who disregard the signs in Frick Park that clearly say "DOGS MUST BE ON LEASH".
You can make the comparisons to speeding or whatever other infraction of the law you want. When I'm on my bike or trail running in Frick Park, I don't randomly wander up to other park users. I expect the same from other users and their animals, children, etc. I always practice trail etiquette while on the trails and expect the same from others.
I have fallen a number of times already because a dog has wandered in to path, unrestrained. I, as many other people who regularly exercise, am quite a different person when my adrenaline and heart rate are up. I don't understand why people want to take a chance at upsetting someone like that, in a 600 acre city park. But as I'm constantly reminded, common sense is something that rarely exists.
Everyone has their own opinion - and unfortunately most of our opinions have to do with prior experience. I have had my share of issues with dogs - but in my experience, the dogs being on leash or off leash is the issue. It's is always an issue with the owners. Dogs that are not trained or encouraged to be aggressive cause problems regardless of whether they are on leash - I've heard of dogs breaking through windows to get to people passing by, now we walk by a dog on a chain that is screwed into the ground that will come of out of the ground any day, and where I used to live, we had to avoid a young kid who couldn't control his extremely dog aggressive dogs. All of these dogs were "contained" and were more of a threat to me than any dog in Frick Park.
And just an fyi - I don't think of myself as "scurrying" to leash to my dog - I see people who may be uncomfortable around my two large dogs and I leash them. There is no need to scurry as my dogs always within several feet and come to my side immediately when I call them. I understand that a 90 lbs rottie and 50lbs boxer/pit might be scary to some people (they are very friendly but because strangers are just as unpredictable, they are trained never to approach people).
I understand that if my dogs hurt someone or someone's dog, I am responsible - however I have more faith in them than I do most people. People all take risks in some aspect of another - I just consider this a very low risk. You also have to remember that the people whose dogs kill other dogs and people and although the owners seem dumbfounded, when you actually look closer, the dogs/owners have had long histories of poor behavior. They act dumbfounded because it's a much better way to act than to say, "yeah, I thought they might do that" - especially with criminal charges at stake. Then you find out that the dog has been a problem dog for years.
I don't really consider dogs who are pulling their owners along by the leash "contained," at all, so I see your use of quotations as a very appropriate move. To me, contained dogs are dogs that are walking close to their owners and are leashed, for example. Also, what about owners who adopt older dogs without any knowledge of previous training or potential triggers? There's only so much you - as a Homo sapien and separate entity - can know about your dog and its thoughts.
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that, in a way, I agree with you. I don't have much faith in people, which is why I don't trust any dog owner who tells me his/her dog will not harm me. I also don't trust all the people who want to pet the dog I walk, which is why I keep him on a leash, just in case someone hurts him, and I need to pull him away quickly. Just in case some other poorly trained pooch tries to jump on top of him. No... a leash is not some type of panacea, but it can help. Do you know what your dog will do if it's hurt? If it feels its life is in danger? What if he gets stung by a bee and runs into the road?
What about those people who have been attacked by dogs before? Do you feel it's alright for you to add to their anguish by allowing your dogs to go without physical restraint in a public park that should be open for the enjoyment of all? Should they stay at home, instead, while you go on disobeying the leash laws (assuming you are walking your animals in an area that has them)?
The people I really have problems with? The woman who allows her dog to run at the delivery man, the guy who allows his dog to charge a kid passing by on the sidewalk (even if only to lick him), the "nice" lady down the street who thinks it's okay for her poodle to roam in your backyard.
You seem like a great dog owner, and I'm not trying to be purposefully disrespectful. I am just trying to explain why a dog not on a leash, regardless of how well-behaved, can be unsettling to some. And why it's not necessarily rooted in hatred of canines.
I am more than upset at the number of dog owners who disregard the signs in Frick Park that clearly say "DOGS MUST BE ON LEASH".
There is a dog run at Frick Park. It's not completely fenced in like other dog runs.
Dogs don't have to be on leashes in that part of Frick Park.
I've been there. There's a sign.
Here's a picture of where it's located: Frick Park: Off-Leash Dog Area City of Pittsburgh
There is a dog run at Frick Park. It's not completely fenced in like other dog runs.
Dogs don't have to be on leashes in that part of Frick Park.
I've been there. There's a sign.
Here's a picture of where it's located: Frick Park: Off-Leash Dog Area City of Pittsburgh
And this is a case in which my common sense would tell me to avoid allowing my dog to run free in that dog run. Especially with a bunch of other "stranger" dogs and their owners. Yes, if anything goes wrong, I could argue it's the park's fault for allowing me to take the leash off in an unsecured area. What about personal accountability?
And this is a case in which my common sense would tell me to avoid allowing my dog to run free in that dog run. Especially with a bunch of other "stranger" dogs and their owners. Yes, if anything goes wrong, I could argue it's the park's fault for allowing me to take the leash off in an unsecured area. What about personal accountability?
Almost all of our parks have large fenced in areas. The dogs run around with many stranger dogs and their owners. THAT'S THE POINT. It's important to socialize dogs.
It's clear you really don't know anything about dogs. (That's okay....I'm just commenting on the obvious.) I respect that you fear them. I just really think that you would have benefited from someone teaching you about dogs when you were a child.
I've had parents who wanted me to help their children overcome their fear of dogs by asking me to bring my dog to their house. They realized that living a life in fear of dogs was not healthy. It can actually put you in more danger. Children spend a few days walking through the woods with my dogs, holding their leashes, and having me teach them dog safety, and they've been much safer for it.
It's clear you really don't know anything about dogs. (That's okay....I'm just commenting on the obvious.) I respect that you fear them. I just really think that you would have benefited from someone teaching you about dogs when you were a child.
You know, I was actually trying to be civil toward you, and not get into another fight. Clearly you have it in for me, so I am not sure I can have a civilized discussion with you. But I will try.
Yes, it's important to socialize dogs. Socializing them in an unsecured area that can result in them running away and hurting innocent people who are not at all prepared for a dog running at them - people who are in areas of the park that require leashes - is wrong! That's my point. It's unsecured, and that makes it dangerous, because you never know what will happen, because you're releasing them into a zone with dogs and people you don't know. That's why dog runs have to be secured! To create a situation that will attempt to ensure, as much as possible, that only the willing participants of the socializing have to put up with the consequences. That fence is a safety precaution that is absolutely necessary, in my opinion.
Can we please try to be civil here? Can you please actually read my words? I said "that dog run," meaning I was against "that dog run," not all dog runs.
And no, I don't fear dogs. I respect dogs, and their power. I also fear FOR them, because very frequently, innocent animals are killed because of the stupidity of their owners.
You know, I was actually trying to be civil toward you, and not get into another fight. Clearly you have it in for me, so I am not sure I can have a civilized discussion with you. But I will try.
I'm clueless. I really don't recall ever discussing anything with you previously. I'm not saying that we haven't. I'm just saying that I don't remember.
I'm not out to get anyone. I'm merely debating an issue on the internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adhzedan
Yes, it's important to socialize dogs. Socializing them in an unsecured area that can result in them running away and hurting innocent people who are not at all prepared for a dog running at them - people who are in areas of the park that require leashes - is wrong! That's my point.
Your previous post mostly focused on it not being wise to let your dog run loose with stranger dogs and their owners. That's why I pointed out that it's important to socialize dogs with other dogs and people. Any dog run has stranger dogs and their owners, not just an open dog run.
I also think it's important for parents to socialize children with dogs for the sake of the children. I think it's irresponsible parenting to instill a fear of dogs into children. If a child is naturally afraid of dogs, a parent has an obligation to teach their child dog safety, not validate the child's fears.
Running away is the most dangerous thing a person can do around a dog, and that's what fearful children do. It's unrealistic and irresponsible to expect dog owners to protect the child because there are stray dogs in the world. Parent need to teach their children dog safety or find a friend who can do it for them.
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