Pittsburgh Sunshine (things to do, title, educational)

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by mike02

The NWS Pittsburgh Preliminary Monthly Data does not include the % of possible sunshine. It only includes the sky conditions on a scale of 0-10 and how many days went down as clear, partly cloudy, and cloudy in a month. It is a better source to look at than the 49+ year average of % of possible sunshine because radiation varies.

It charts back to 1997 and includes data for all 12 months. By looking at 2009 and 2010 alone, you will notice that the winter cloudy days are about average (18-22 per winter month), however, the cloudy days are far below average from spring through fall.

e.g. The 49+ year data table for July suggests 13 cloudy days. There were barely 5 cloudy days in July 2010 and less than 10 overall in any of the years I looked at in the Preliminary Monthly Data (1997-present).

No, it does not suggest 13 cloudy days. It states that July gets, on average, 57% of possible sunshine. That could mean 31 days all get 57% of possible sunshine. 13 cloudy days assumes the other 17 days are totally clear. That is not the case in Pittsburgh, as we all know. Most summer days fall into the classification of partly sunny/cloudy.

[mike02]

Originally Posted by Katiana

No, it does not suggest 13 cloudy days. It states that July gets, on average, 57% of possible sunshine. That could mean 31 days all get 57% of possible sunshine. 13 cloudy days assumes the other 17 days are totally clear. That is not the case in Pittsburgh, as we all know. Most summer days fall into the classification of partly sunny/cloudy.

Yes, it does suggest that. According to this link Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed, which comes from NWS records, July in Pittsburgh averages 13 cloudy, 13 partly cloudy, and 5 clear days.

According to this link http://www.weather.gov/climate/getclimate.php?wfo=pbz, July 2010 in Pittsburgh witnessed 7 clear days, 19 partly cloudy, and 5 cloudy days. Unfortunately, I haven't found any recent records on the % of possible sunshine. Remember, that 57% was averaged over 50 years and when comparing to other cities, their averages may be higher than Pittsburgh based on the average length of time. It's really annoying when people nit-pick. Cleveland at 49% must be sunnier! Yeah, okay. All the rankings of sunniest to least sunniest cities suggest is that when comparing, look at them as a range, not a particular order. It's clearly obvious which one is sunnier when comparing Pittsburgh to Yuma, AZ. It is just plain ridiculous to claim Cleveland or Buffalo wins for overall sunshine when compared to Pittsburgh or vice-versa.

My point is: Preliminary Monthly Data provides a much more accurate and vivid quantitative picture of current Pittsburgh sky conditions. It is updated daily. Other links on the site will show the sky conditions for every hour. So, if someone is concerned about sunshine in the Burgh, I would suggest to check that out instead of silly rankings.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by mike02

Yes, it does suggest that. According to this link Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed, which comes from NWS records, July in Pittsburgh averages 13 cloudy, 13 partly cloudy, and 5 clear days.

According to this link http://www.weather.gov/climate/getclimate.php?wfo=pbz, July 2010 in Pittsburgh witnessed 7 clear days, 19 partly cloudy, and 5 cloudy days. Unfortunately, I haven't found any recent records on the % of possible sunshine. Remember, that 57% was averaged over 50 years and when comparing to other cities, their averages may be higher than Pittsburgh based on the average length of time. It's really annoying when people nit-pick. Cleveland at 49% must be sunnier! Yeah, okay. All the rankings of sunniest to least sunniest cities suggest is that when comparing, look at them as a range, not a particular order. It's clearly obvious which one is sunnier when comparing Pittsburgh to Yuma, AZ. It is just plain ridiculous to claim Cleveland or Buffalo wins for overall sunshine when compared to Pittsburgh or vice-versa.

My point is: Preliminary Monthly Data provides a much more accurate and vivid quantitative picture of current Pittsburgh sky conditions. It is updated daily. Other links on the site will show the sky conditions for every hour. So, if someone is concerned about sunshine in the Burgh, I would suggest to check that out instead of silly rankings.

Your link is not from the NWS, and may have been calculated using the numbers from the percent average sunshine. I am at a loss to understand why you think 49 years of data is a poorer representation than 13 years. The larger the study, the better, in virtually ALL cases, no matter what you are studying.

Do you find the NWS and NOAA "silly"?

[greg42]

It's clearly very important for Katiana to tell us that we don't really get as much sun here as we think we do. That's the one thing that's most difficult to explain in this thread.

What my eyes have told me this late fall and winter so far is that we've had more than the average amount of sun for this time of year. If that is true it won't really show up in long-term average stats. It's just what's happening right now.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by greg42

It's clearly very important for Katiana to tell us that we don't really get as much sun here as we think we do. That's the one thing that's most difficult to explain in this thread.

What my eyes have told me this late fall and winter so far is that we've had more than the average amount of sun for this time of year. If that is true it won't really show up in long-term average stats. It's just what's happening right now.

Sorry I'm such a stickler for accuracy, which is the entire point of my posts today. I was hoping it was possible to contribute to a thread about Pittsburgh sunshine, with no judgementalism whatsoever (where did I say this situation in Pittsburgh was bad?), without receiving a personal attack. I have a problem with people who like to "jury-rig" statistics!

[Copanut]

With all due respect, it is pretty cloudy in the burg, stats be damned.

[mike02]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Your link is not from the NWS, and may have been calculated using the numbers from the percent average sunshine. I am at a loss to understand why you think 49 years of data is a poorer representation than 13 years. The larger the study, the better, in virtually ALL cases, no matter what you are studying.

Do you find the NWS and NOAA "silly"?

First off the Steelers are on... so I'll be quick to answer. My link is not from the NOAA, BUT those numbers come from the same page on the NOAA. I couldn't find the page originally, but now I did. Here's the actual link from NOAA Cloudiness - Mean Number of Days. Same numbers!

If someone wants to know how "sunny" it is in the Burgh, 49+ years of data may not be as relevant as more recent data (e.g. Preliminary Monthly Data). Solar radiation per year may vary. Other factors could have contributed to a lower % of possible sunshine that is not weather related. You constantly post the same link over and over and over again. I'm not saying it's silly or not factual, BUT I'm saying that recent records provide a better representation of the current climate.

Instead of just sitting back and accepting the fact I had an actual NWS/NOAA source with recent records, you had to jump in with your same usual 49+ years data page. And now you are nit picking over cloudy days or possible % of sunshine in July? and my sources are not legit? Also, you have to be careful how you read stats. Those numbers DO NOT provide methods of collection or technology used. I'm not saying they are wrong, but read them with some scrutiny.

I think people on here have had enough of your constant blabbing. You come off very arrogant and your posts on here are quite obsessive. Maybe if you took into consideration other people's posts who have factual information that aren't the same as yours, there wouldn't be problems. But you always have to start something. Nit-picking.

Oh, and copanut define cloudy. Do you mean a complete overcast sky with no sunshine is your typical Pittsburgh day?

[mike02]

Originally Posted by greg42

It's clearly very important for Katiana to tell us that we don't really get as much sun here as we think we do. That's the one thing that's most difficult to explain in this thread.

What my eyes have told me this late fall and winter so far is that we've had more than the average amount of sun for this time of year. If that is true it won't really show up in long-term average stats. It's just what's happening right now.

I completely agree! There are recent stats that confirm some of those feelings. It's called the NWS Pittsburgh Preliminary Monthly Data. Now, December 2010 averaged around 20 cloudy days, BUT, many of those cloudy days had at least a couple hours of sunshine. Some days don't have any at all. Most of those cloudy days were 80-90% cloudy.

Some people on here want to be simplistic and black & white over this issue. Others, like you and me, look further than just the numbers.

[4thGenerationPGH]

I cannot believe there is actually 33 pages of bickering on this subject.

It's rather simple, the "statistics" and "actual observation" are going to differ.

Just because a cloudy day is recorded, doesn't mean it's not a sunny day.

I think this article sums it up nicely...

THE REAL NUMBER OF SUNNY DAYS IN PITTSBURGH IS 145 (NOT 59)
How do I know? I counted them!
B y B r e t t Y a s k o

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07007/751891-109.stm

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Man, some of you people obsess of this sh*t. The bottom line is that Pittsburgh is in the top 15 most cloudiest cities in the country and sometimes we have a few moments of sun on our "cloudy" days. That's it, time to move on.