interesting neigbourhoods (other than shadyside, please) (Pittsburgh, Butler: fit in, apartments, crime rates)

[StrangeLight]

first, let me say that i don't mean to offend any shadyside cheerleaders with my thread title. i'm relocating to pittsburgh for grad school and i've been doing my research on neighbourhoods to live in and shadyside/squirrel hill seems like my own personal version of hell. it has a strong suburban/yuppie vibe and that's precisely the sort of environment i don't want. i'm laying it out there to avoid people trying to convince me that having a target superstore down the street is somehow a selling point. it seems a bit too sterile for my tastes. thanks.

currently, i live in vancouver, in the west end. known mostly for a ton of restaurants, cafes, and boutiques, it has a large LGBT community, it's pet-friendly, and it's a 10 minute walk into downtown. there are parks everywhere and it's walking distance to the beach, the residences are old victorians and rowhouses converted into apartments, and there's usually a crack addict rifling through my trash a few hours a night. anyone familiar with vancouver will know the city has one of the highest crime rates in north america (our dirty secret), a severe homelessness/social housing problem, and high rates of drug use and illnesses associated with drug use. while a lot of this is concentrated in one area of the city (the downtown eastside), there's spillover into other parts of downtown. the apartment i currently live in used to be a shooting gallery 8 or 9 years ago. it's a great area but also a place that i know some people would feel uncomfortable in at night. i'm accustomed to it, though.

i guess i mention all that because i'm looking for something similar in pittsburgh. nothing suburban-feeling, close to a street or streets conducive to bar-hopping, with older homes converted into apartments, and a place that has a strong sense of community and socio-economic diversity.

i'm trying to find some affordable (i.e. around $600/month) apartments that are within a 45 minute commute by bus to pitt/CMU (that's the commute i have now to campus and i'm fine with it). i've been particularly drawn to the mexican war streets/northside, lawrenceville/bloomfield, and southside flats, though i read another thread here that said the southside works is basically a collection of chain restaurants and chain stores. is all of southside like that, or just the area known as the southside works? any useful information on these neighbourhoods? and are there other neighbourhoods i'm missing?

thanks in advance.

[igo]

The yuppy vibe is low in almost all of the city neighborhoods. You might want to check out southside, bloomfield, or lawrenceville. I would say they are 98% yuppie free. lol

[steindle]

You sound like you would fit in just fine in Lawrenceville, plus it's way cheaper than you're even looking for. I split a 2-bedroom HOUSE for $700 total. There's plenty to do, it's convenient (20-30 minute bus straight to CMU/Pitt) and it's certainly not yuppified (to the point that someone on this forum is guaranteed to make a disparaging comment about it being a den of vice and violence every time it's mentioned). Message me if you're curious about more...I don't feel like debating people publicly.

I wouldn't really recommend the South Side honestly. It's not suburban in physical feel but there is a certain...social stuffiness to it. It's where you go if you want to see a midget dance on a bar for money or see girls standing in line to enter a "tiki bar," wearing miniskirts in 20-degree weather. It's certainly not an LGBT hotspot in comparison to the East End -- there is significantly more of a frat guy vibe to it than there was when I was hanging out there in high school (90's), and it's just getting bigger.

[nuwaver88]

Originally Posted by steindle

You sound like you would fit in just fine in Lawrenceville, plus it's way cheaper than you're even looking for. I split a 2-bedroom HOUSE for $700 total. There's plenty to do, it's convenient (20-30 minute bus straight to CMU/Pitt) and it's certainly not yuppified (to the point that someone on this forum is guaranteed to make a disparaging comment about it being a den of vice and violence every time it's mentioned). Message me if you're curious about more...I don't feel like debating people publicly.

I wouldn't really recommend the South Side honestly. It's not suburban in physical feel but there is a certain...social stuffiness to it. It's where you go if you want to see a midget dance on a bar for money or see girls standing in line to enter a "tiki bar," wearing miniskirts in 20-degree weather. It's certainly not an LGBT hotspot in comparison to the East End -- there is significantly more of a frat guy vibe to it than there was when I was hanging out there in high school (90's), and it's just getting bigger.

Good post. I agree with the South Side night life being more frat party than it was in the 1990s. It is still a cool neighborhood though. Lawrenceville is a bit grittier, but is changing rapidly with more artsy types. That is how th South Side started to change in the 1980s, with the artists. It is how Shadyside changed in the early 70s, with the artists. The area especiallly in the 3200 to 4500 block of Butler Street seems to be hot. Further up towards the 62nd Street Bridge is a kinda boring. I went to Belvedere's on Butler Street last Thurday for 80s night. I was highly impressed with the atmosphere on the street. It is not the way I remember Lawrenceville and I have been going through there all of my life. It is a neighborhood with a high upside, but is under the radar for now.

[StrangeLight]

thanks for the tips about south side. i'm trying to avoid both the frat-guy areas and the 19-22 year old college student areas. i've made the mistake of living too close to campus before, and it just wasn't for me. i like keeping my life and my schoolwork separate.

and the LGBT presence is by no means a requirement, simply a description of the community i live in now. racial, ethnic, sexual, and economic diversity would all be nice to have, though i know i won't find all of that in one neighbourhood. i'd just like to live in a mixed/integrated area.

Originally Posted by ThumperRumper

None, the whole city is full of run down falling apart neighborhoods full of cockroaches.

cockroaches are trading up from the mice i live with now, so that's cool with me.

[nuwaver88]

It seems like Lawrenceville may be your kind of place. It has a LGBT seen. It still has a decent "yinzer" populace. These are the blue-collar native Pittsburghers who speak with a thick Pittsburgh dialect. It is partially urban and partially Appalachian. It is quite unique. The neighborhood still has a blue-collar feel that blends in with the artsy/progressive atmosphere. It is racially mixed. It is close to Downtown on a major busline. It is close to the Strip, which is Pittsburgh's wholesale district with great ethnic food stores. Some parts are still run down, but there is are plans to change that. Like I said, It may have a bit more grit than Vancouver, but a lot of people love that about some of Pittsburgh's neighborhoods.

[StrangeLight]

vancouver has plenty of grit, we just hide it like we're ashamed of it.

i'm in walking distance of a 10-block neighbourhood that has a 33% HIV infection rate, an 85% hep C infection rate, and about 8000 homeless people. walking to the corner of hastings and main (location of the carnegie center... yes, your carnegie), you can see a handful of people shoot heroin or smoke crack on the sidewalk in broad daylight. a friend of mine is a substance abuse psychologist in the south bronx and when i took him through the neighbourhood he said he hadn't seen anything like it.

i'm gonna miss this place.



but it sounds like lawrenceville is a good place for me. thanks for the advice/information!

[nuwaver88]

Maybe I should have read your whole initial post. I did not know that about Vancouver. Is it native Canadiens or people crossing over from the States who have brought this drug/homeless epidemic?

[BrianTH]

As everyone is suggesting, Lawrenceville seems to be the best fit. But I'd also look further along Penn Avenue in the Friendship/Garfield area as well.

By the way, the South Side Flats doesn't sound quite like what you are looking for, but I thought I would note it is distinct from the South Side Works.

[StrangeLight]

Originally Posted by nuwaver88

Maybe I should have read your whole initial post. I did not know that about Vancouver. Is it native Canadiens or people crossing over from the States who have brought this drug/homeless epidemic?

mostly canadians. and mostly mentally ill, and a disproportionately large number of native canadians/first nations people. vancouver has really mild winters and so many homeless people from across the country have migrated out here in the hopes of surviving through the winter. the city is also extremely expensive, with studio apartments going for $700/month in all neighbourhoods other than this one particular section. quite often people become homeless simply because they were out of work for a month. there are around 160,000 people at risk of becoming homeless if they're out of work for more than two months. housing is a huge, huge problem here.

the homelessness problem is more the result of a complete lack of social and affordable housing than anything else. the drug problem is a symptom, rather than a cause, of this lack of housing. this is currently being exacerbated as the city bankrupts itself in preparation for hosting the 2010 winter olympics. i won't get too much into it, because it's a completely different topic about a completely different city, but yeah... the idea that vancouver's a shiny, hippy commune out in the pacific northwest full of left-wing progressives is really just a myth. there's a lot of drugs and a good bit of gang violence, mostly vietnamese and hong kong gangs fighting with the hell's angels.

the city has a lot of problems and most of them will be on display during the olympics. it'll be interesting to see how much, or how little, of the protests are going to make it onto international television.









and back on topic a bit... is there anywhere else in pittsburgh i should look into? i think my original post has mislead people a little. i'm not LGBT myself, so that particular community having a strong presence in a neighbourhood isn't really necessary for me (though certainly more than welcome). any info on the mexican war streets or observatory hill?