Are people still leaving Pittsburgh? (Homewood: neighborhood, school districts, closing)

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by simetime

The people who look at the taxes as being too high are not making enough and the people who don't worry about them do

I agree with this, but it is a function of getting revenues from flat-rate property taxes in general, not the particular situation in Pittsburgh. The same goes for flat sales taxes and flat income taxes--they cause disproportionate harm to lower-income people.

To solve this problem, we need some sort of progressive tax carrying more of the load at both the state and local level (most progressive taxes are income taxes, but you can also do progressive versions of consumption taxes or even property taxes). Unfortunately, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court has held that the Pennsylvania Constitution outlaws progressive taxation, so this would take a constitutional amendment.

[LiveinPA]

Originally Posted by simetime

The people who look at the taxes as being too high are not making enough and the people who don't worry about them do

Most people making a real income who actually care...leave.

I can assure you I didn't realize how bad taxes were until I actually started making good money.

[TootsieWootsie]

Being of retirement age--and having gone thru all this already--yeah...ain't it the truth: the more money you make, the more you realize how ripped you get on taxes. Welcome to maturity....ha!
In my old age--wherever I move to--I plan to get really involved politically because of this very thing. I feel citizens need to step up and help cut wasteful spending and use that money to really do some good (the money we give the goverment that is). The older you get, the more you become cognizant how your money is totally wasted, the more irritated you get with the powers-that-be making stupid decisions.

[gg]

I do feel there will be more people leaving our region. One has to weigh what you get with those big tax bills. Sure you can still live in Millvale or Sharpsburg. You can live in Larimer or Homewood, but if you want to live in a better home in a better neighborhood, you have to pony up one heck of a lot of money. Even at $100K of home value, you are playing almost $300 a month in tax and you can't buy much for $100K. If you buy a $200K home, you will be over $500 a month in tax. Do people really want to pay that kind of money? You could have a $400K home in DC area and pay less towards tax. The percentage is so wildly out of control. Therefore, I really feel our region will continue to decline. Taxes and bad air quality are probably our biggest uphill battle.

[hinsey86]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

I do feel there will be more people leaving our region. One has to weigh what you get with those big tax bills. Sure you can still live in Millvale or Sharpsburg. You can live in Larimer or Homewood, but if you want to live in a better home in a better neighborhood, you have to pony up one heck of a lot of money. Even at $100K of home value, you are playing almost $300 a month in tax and you can't buy much for $100K. If you buy a $200K home, you will be over $500 a month in tax. Do people really want to pay that kind of money? You could have a $400K home in DC area and pay less towards tax. The percentage is so wildly out of control. Therefore, I really feel our region will continue to decline. Taxes and bad air quality are probably our biggest uphill battle.

It would be interesting to see what 400,000 would get you in that market there now. When we looked it was a lower end cookie cutter townhouse. The DC area has been a big bust for several friends who bought there. Even with my higher taxes I am still way ahead one who bought the same time in that area that we did here. Their 770,000 is worth 500 something while mine has increased by 30,000 (before reassessment). I guess there may be bargains to be had there but I will stick with the much more historically stable market here--even with higher taxes.

[gg]

Originally Posted by hinsey86

It would be interesting to see what 400,000 would get you in that market there now. When we looked it was a lower end cookie cutter townhouse. The DC area has been a big bust for several friends who bought there. Even with my higher taxes I am still way ahead one who bought the same time in that area that we did here. Their 770,000 is worth 500 something while mine has increased by 30,000 (before reassessment). I guess there may be bargains to be had there but I will stick with the much more historically stable market here--even with higher taxes.

Are you trying to compare you wee home to a $770k home in DC? My points mainly hinges on percentages. As someone who invests for a living, I consider percentages over all. That being said, you can take a little sniped of time and make things look great for you, but the long haul is more accurate. That being said, Pittsburgh's real estate market seems to be pretty flat until VERY recently. Now that this massive reassessment is taking place, it will be interesting to see what happens to real property values in our region. I certainly don't think they are going to go up. Probably adjusted downwards because many will be forced to leave.

[hinsey86]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Are you trying to compare you wee home to a $770k home in DC? My points mainly hinges on percentages. As someone who invests for a living, I consider percentages over all. That being said, you can take a little sniped of time and make things look great for you, but the long haul is more accurate. That being said, Pittsburgh's real estate market seems to be pretty flat until VERY recently. Now that this massive reassessment is taking place, it will be interesting to see what happens to real property values in our region. I certainly don't think they are going to go up. Probably adjusted downwards because many will be forced to leave.

I never said my home was "wee". Just simply I was not willing to pay 400,000 for an ugly townhouse where there are thousands and thousands of the same. And yes it was a "sniped of time" but a snipid that has cost my friend about 300,000. I will take my increase of 30,000 anytime. I have lived all over the country and been a landlord (hated it) and bought and sold. Pittsburgh area was is perfect for us for long term home ownership.

[BrianTH]

We've discussed this to death in other threads. Given your mortgage, opportunity cost of capital, insurance, and so forth, you can't expect to do better paying a lot more in these more expensive markets unless you assume abnormally high appreciation rates. And for that reason noting what has happened recently is quite important--the abnormal appreciation rates in many places around the country proved unsustainable.

[gg]

Originally Posted by hinsey86

I never said my home was "wee". Just simply I was not willing to pay 400,000 for an ugly townhouse where there are thousands and thousands of the same. And yes it was a "sniped of time" but a snipid that has cost my friend about 300,000. I will take my increase of 30,000 anytime. I have lived all over the country and been a landlord (hated it) and bought and sold. Pittsburgh area was is perfect for us for long term home ownership.

Actually it is like ANY investment. It hasn't cost him one dime, unless he sells in a crap market. Just like any investment, it is hard to find the bottom. Of course I am a genius at such thing, but even an idiot can wait things out. I suspect his $700K will be a mill at some point. Just has to relax and live in a nice place for a while. Only dopes panic sell.

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

We've discussed this to death in other threads. Given your mortgage, opportunity cost of capital, insurance, and so forth, you can't expect to do better paying a lot more in these more expensive markets unless you assume abnormally high appreciation rates. And for that reason noting what has happened recently is quite important--the abnormal appreciation rates in many places around the country proved unsustainable.

What are you getting for your money? Please don't compare Pittsburgh's amenities to NOVA. You can't. Beautiful bike trails everywhere and great public transportation. Union Station anyone? 3 hour trial ride to NYC? Philly in a moment? Not far from beaches? Come on, lets not post dream land posts. You can't compare the big time to the small time. Pittsburgh is a midwestern type place with a falling transit system and roads falling apart. DC? Lots of money and big time governmental money that will always be rolling in.

There is no comparison. Pittsburgh loses in most cases, except people are more friendly here for the most part. Driving here is nicer. People are still sort of courteous on the streets unlike DC where every SUV driver is an idiot.

Pittsburgh has plenty of unsustainable things going on. Obviously PAT Bus is a prime example, but the school systems are going to get spanked in the next 15 years or so. It is going to be the beginning of privatization, because people will finally say no. There is no way these salaries can keep going because the pensions are way too fat. Then we need to hire more teachers and... oh my!!! Forgetaboutit!