Riverparc (Pittsburgh, Duquesne, Penn: real estate, rental, condos) - Pennsylvania (PA) - City-Data Forum

nuwaver88 · 08-20-2009, 01:23 PM

I would love to see this project get of the ground within a year or two. It initially was to begin over a year ago and take up to ten years. It was not outright cancelled, but put on the back burner due to the economy and the housing crisis. This project highly emphasized housing. That is what Downtown needs. This project in and of itself will change Downtown Pittsburgh and it's image. When I walk or drive across one of the sister bridges into Downtown, I shake my head when I see that Goodyear building, those parking lots, and other dumpy buildings. what a waste of prime space. Cultural Trust unveils riverfront housing capstone

Surely the Pittsburgh Cultural Trust has some of the money in it's coffers or they would not come out and propose a $460 million project. It would be nice to see at least something announced soon.

vtPGH · 08-20-2009, 01:28 PM

Considering the collapse of this project directly contributed to my architecture firm laying me off, I cannot agree more!...

bradjl2009 · 08-20-2009, 01:30 PM

When they announced this I was so excited because at that time, I was in that general area of Downtown everyday. I'm hoping the cultural trust will give an update or something about it later this year or early 2010 when the economy slowly gets better.

nuwaver88 · 08-20-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradjl2009

When they announced this I was so excited because at that time, I was in that general area of Downtown everyday. I'm hoping the cultural trust will give an update or something about it later this year or early 2010 when the economy slowly gets better.

I hope so to. There surely are millions already earmarked for the project. I think it can work if we start out slowly.

greg42 · 08-20-2009, 02:13 PM

This is typical I think. They go for a really significant plan here, then they get cold feet. Concord Eastridge (lead developer) was convinced that the downturn was not a problem for this project, and given what's been happening with downtown residential, I can see why they would say that. I can't figure out where the Cultural Trust guys were coming from when they shelved it. If they had just gone for it on the original time frame, they'd be in good shape. Now, who knows when they'll ever get back to it. It's going to be one of those decades-long on again off again things, I suspect.

JoeP · 08-21-2009, 11:25 AM

It's not cold feet. We are still (the entire country) in the middle of the worst economic crisis of our lifetimes. It's not realistic for a project like that to get off the ground anytime soon.

greg42 · 08-21-2009, 08:44 PM

The problem is judging this area by the entire country. Amazingly enough, we're in better shape than much of the country, and the timing would still have been right for much of what they were doing with Riverparc. I'll see if I can find what I read around the time of the Cultural Trust getting cold feet; that is really what it was. Keep in mind, the developers are the ones who were studying the market. The Cultural Trust is no real estate analyst. Bah, I'll stop trying to go from memory any further and try instead to find the news from then....

Yes, I thought I remembered this, the developers actually sued the Cultural Trust for breach of contract: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09066/953820-53.stm

Here's one article with what happened at the time. I believe the real estate developers would have a better handle on whether it could or couldn't be built as opposed to the Cultural Trust: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08144/884271-28.stm

Part of that comes from the fact that the Cultural Trust has a history of fumbling these things: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08149/885315-52.stm

The biggest underlying problem appears to be not the credit market but the fact that the Cultural Trust overpaid for all the land involved in the project. The land was to be sold to the developer, but it appraised at much less than the Cultural Trust paid for it. Of course, the Cultural Trust itself doesn't have a pile of cash to aquire that; they get it from other foundations, and they're afraid of having to show them a big loss on that land.

Not that we should brush aside the things the Cultural Trust has managed to do over 25 years, but these projects with outside developers don't seem to work out too well.

JoeP · 08-22-2009, 07:20 AM

I have a hard time with the cold feet thing since we are in the biggest economic crisis of our lifetimes.

The Cultural Trust has slowly (yet fast in some respects) and methodically made a significant portion of downtown, a national model.

They do things right. Changing the tabling of a very large real estate project in an environment when very little real estate activity is happening and banks are stabilizing is not only sound, it's common sense.

nuwaver88 · 08-22-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeP

I have a hard time with the cold feet thing since we are in the biggest economic crisis of our lifetimes.

The Cultural Trust has slowly (yet fast in some respects) and methodically made a significant portion of downtown, a national model.

They do things right. Changing the tabling of a very large real estate project in an environment when very little real estate activity is happening and banks are stabilizing is not only sound, it's common sense.

I agree that is hard to argue with the success and to be too critical of the Cultural Trust. I still would like to see some movement in this area because it was to be done in piecemeal anyway. There has to be at least some money there. Also, this is the northern face of Downtown. Take a look at what sits between CAPA and the new Encore condos. Not just along Fort Duquesne, but also the alley like Eigth Steet back towards Penn. This area is so important because of the view, proximity/connection to the North Shore, the convention center, and of course, the Cultural District itself.

greg42 · 08-22-2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeP

I have a hard time with the cold feet thing since we are in the biggest economic crisis of our lifetimes.

The Cultural Trust has slowly (yet fast in some respects) and methodically made a significant portion of downtown, a national model.

They do things right. Changing the tabling of a very large real estate project in an environment when very little real estate activity is happening and banks are stabilizing is not only sound, it's common sense.

Did you read the articles? Do you go downtown or pay attention to what is happening there? Just completed a new office building/hotel/more condos. Condos are selling well in downtown. New rental complexes are opening already completely rented and with waiting lists. Places on the fringe of downtown (Strip District) have projects that are selling or renting well.

Spouting off the generalities of the biggest economic crisis of our lifetimes is a cop out. Justify it in terms of what is actually happening in downtown Pittsburgh.

If this project had continued forward, it would have been all set for things to really take off again as we get further beyond the crisis. Instead, this project will be behind. Nothing will happen over there for years.