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Old 08-25-2009, 07:22 AM
 
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For the record, I initially brought this up because everyone was telling the OP that Downtown was dead. Well, most Pittsburghers mean the 'central business district' when referencing Downtown. KC clearly has various 'districts' linked closely together with a 'hospital district' in the immediate downtown area. Meanwhile, Pittsburgh's 'hospital district' is located in Oakland. I could care less about size. I'm just pointing out that the City of Pittsburgh has some similar districts, they're just not right next to each other in the area called Downtown. My bottom line: Pittsburgh is far from dead.
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Old 08-25-2009, 07:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I'm sure KC's financial district is dead on the weekends, just like NYC's financial district. That's how I view Pittsburgh's central business district being dead on the weekends.
As far as people from the burbs who come into work yes. But the actually CBD is very busy, but it's also touristy... they built the Power and Light District right in the middle of it, which has music, concerts, bars, restaurants, shopping etc.... right in the middle of the CBD.

Before that, yeah, besides the Library and a few bars/clubs, most of what people went to would be in the River Market or Crossroads, which is just outside of the CBD.

Tho I still lived right in the CBD before they even had that built, I just like the looks of downtown (skyscapers etc), and it is central to everything around here.

In fact the look of Pittsburghs downtown really attracts me to the city...

Pittsburgh pics(broadband rec.) - Cyburbia Forums | Urban Planning Community

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania: Southside Flats - Cyburbia Forums | Urban Planning Community

The pics there are amazing, but not just the CBD, I like the look of a lot of the neighborhoods too.
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Old 08-25-2009, 08:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
Brian, Their River Market is probably our Strip District. I'll bet something on KC's downtown map includes a district similar to Oakland. For instance, KC has a Hospital Hill.

Our city 'districts' are merely separated by hillsides, not everything is in one place.

I'm sure KC's financial district is dead on the weekends, just like NYC's financial district. That's how I view Pittsburgh's central business district being dead on the weekends.
Actually now that I look at the map I put up of KC, yeah our "financial district" is dead pretty much on weekends... but yeah what is downtown here, as in skyscapers or just in the vicinity of them from our map would be River market, Library, Quality Hill, Crossroads, Convention, Government District. Tho Crossroads is not in the downtown loop, it is still considered downtown by people here.

Example





Everything south of the tall buildings in the picture, is Crossroads district, I used to live here and this was considered downtown. Would an area like this not be considered downtown in Pittsburgh?



You can see the neighborhoods here, and downtown far in the background (tho in reality it's a bit closer then it looks here, or at least seems like it in person). This area is also in the city, but not downtown. Would this be a good comparison to say Squirrel Hill? Oakland?

Thanks everyone for the responses...

Last edited by Yac; 08-27-2009 at 12:33 AM..
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Old 08-25-2009, 08:24 AM
 
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If you actually want to live in our Downtown, it is certainly doable, and probably will become increasingly more so over time. Circa 2000 it was very lightly populated, but since then it has experienced a rapid rate of population increase (admittedly from a low base, but still). That is in part because there was a lot of unused upper-floor space in Downtown buildings, and there has been a very active effort recently to get building owners the financing they need to convert those unused spaces to residential units.

The biggest problem may simply be that all indications (e.g., vacancy rates and presales) are that demand still exceeds supply, so by Pittsburgh standards living Downtown is a little pricey. Still, according to this it looks like you can still get a decent-sized 1BR (maybe loft-style) within the $1000/month range:

Central Business District Apartments & Houses Rent Comparison, Neighborhood Rent Maps

Finally, Downtown is actually quite convenient for Oakland, since the Downtown-Oakland corridor probably has more buses running than anywhere in Pittsburgh, and you would likely be doing a reverse-commute of sorts. In fact, Downtown is conveniently located for pretty much everywhere in the area since our whole transportation system is radial in nature, and you even have Zipcar available Downtown if you want to go personally carless.

The chief downside to Downtown living (assuming that is your style of life to begin with) is the sense that it empties out a bit at night and still lacks a few amenities you would expect in a residential area (the most frequently metioned being a real grocery store). Nonetheless, with the steady growth in residents one might expect that to change, and you are still just a quick hop from denser residential areas.
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Old 08-25-2009, 08:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
If you actually want to live in our Downtown, it is certainly doable, and probably will become increasingly more so over time. Circa 2000 it was very lightly populated, but since then it has experienced a rapid rate of population increase (admittedly from a low base, but still). That is in part because there was a lot of unused upper-floor space in Downtown buildings, and there has been a very active effort recently to get building owners the financing they need to convert those unused spaces to residential units.

The biggest problem may simply be that all indications (e.g., vacancy rates and presales) are that demand still exceeds supply, so by Pittsburgh standards living Downtown is a little pricey. Still, according to this it looks like you can still get a decent-sized 1BR (maybe loft-style) within the $1000/month range:

Central Business District Apartments & Houses Rent Comparison, Neighborhood Rent Maps

Finally, Downtown is actually quite convenient for Oakland, since the Downtown-Oakland corridor probably has more buses running than anywhere in Pittsburgh, and you would likely be doing a reverse-commute of sorts. In fact, Downtown is conveniently located for pretty much everywhere in the area since our whole transportation system is radial in nature, and you even have Zipcar available Downtown if you want to go personally carless.

The chief downside to Downtown living (assuming that is your style of life to begin with) is the sense that it empties out a bit at night and still lacks a few amenities you would expect in a residential area (the most frequently metioned being a real grocery store). Nonetheless, with the steady growth in residents one might expect that to change, and you are still just a quick hop from denser residential areas.
Sounds awesome, and as I said it's still a few years away before we make the move, but we need to get our area chosen for pre-requisites for certain programs.

We aren't dead set on downtown of course, and many areas look interesting... it will be much easier to tell when we get out there to explore for ourselves.
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Old 08-25-2009, 09:02 AM
 
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The first picture you posted of KC could be a picture of Pittsburgh from the Strip District area.

I can't find an arial view of Pittsburgh over the Strip, but the strip is next to the city and contains lower buildings along the river.

Here's a street picture from the Strip District with 'Downtown' in the background:



Meanwhile, the second picture you posted would be a good representation of looking at Pittsburgh from Oakland. (That's about the same distance away.)

The following is a picture of Oakland with the Downtown Pittsburgh skycrappers in the distance:



I hope that gives you an idea of how far Oakland is located from Downtown.

Squirrel Hill would essentially be a 4 square mile neighborhood in the area immediately behind the person taking the picture.

Squirrel Hill is at the edge of Oakland. Oakland is between Squirrel Hill and Pittsburgh.

Last edited by Hopes; 08-25-2009 at 09:11 AM..
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Old 08-25-2009, 09:19 AM
 
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This picture overlooks Squirrel Hill towards the Cathedral of Learning (on the horizon in the distance on the left) in Oakland



The skyscrapers dont' show up in this view (which would be far in the distance) because the photo isn't an aerial view and Downtown is downhill from Oakland.
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Old 08-25-2009, 09:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by skrizzle View Post
Everything south of the tall buildings in the picture, is Crossroads district, I used to live here and this was considered downtown. Would an area like this not be considered downtown in Pittsburgh?
Yep, our Downtown is pretty much exclusively the skyscraper part. In fact in your first Cyburbia link, about halfway down, UrbaniDesDev posted a series of photos, and in that series is a shot with some midrise buildings in the foreground, then some trees, and then in the back where the rivers are coming together, you can see a cluster of highrises. That cluster of highrises is the only thing we call Downtown. The midrises in front, by the way, are Oakland, and the tallish Gothic building surrounded by some green space is the Cathedral of Learning, the heart of the Pitt campus.

Edit: I see Hopes posted a picture with Oakland in the foreground and Downtown in the background very much like the one I identified in your link. Again, Downtown is only the small cluster of highrises in the background, and again that is the Cathedral of Learning in the foreground (on the right).

Quote:
You can see the neighborhoods here, and downtown far in the background (tho in reality it's a bit closer then it looks here, or at least seems like it in person). This area is also in the city, but not downtown. Would this be a good comparison to say Squirrel Hill? Oakland?
It is hard to tell distances in photos like this, but you can compare it to the picture I identified above and see it does look a bit like Oakland. A general problem with these comparisons, though, is that KC is obviously a lot flatter than Pittsburgh, and in the East End there are actually some pretty sharp valleys/ravines (sometimes called runs or hollows around here). In fact, what we call "hills" are really the high spots between these valleys and ravines.

Anyway, what happens is you have these distinct neighborhoods close as the crow flies, but nonetheless sharply separated by these valley systems, which were sometimes turned into parks in part because they weren't great for development due to the topography. So between Oakland and Squirrel Hill you actually have one of these parks, Schenley, which is built around the Panther Hollow valley system.

One more suggestion: if you haven't already, try looking at Pittsburgh using Google Maps terrain feature. You should be able to set it up so you can see both the point where the rivers meet on one side and Frick Park on the other side. Downtown is just the little flat triangle at the point, basically on the one side of I-579.

Moving east from Downtown you should see what we call The Hill (imaginative name), and then Oakland is the relatively flat chunk sorta smushed between The Hill and Schenley Park. Squirrel Hill is the not-quite-flat part between Schenley Park and Frick Park (mushrooming out a bit on both the north and south sides.

Finally, Shadyside is a long, narrow, pretty flat neighborhood with Oakland on the west end (at Neville), Penn Avenue on the east end, Squirrel Hill below (at Fifth Avenue), and Centre Avenue on the north side (although really the most notable break is the East Busway, which winds its way down through the increasingly deep valley that goes around The Hill to its north).

I hope you could follow that, and that it helped orient you.
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Old 08-25-2009, 09:54 AM
 
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This is a good picture showing Downtown with the Cathedral of Learning in the distance on the right horizon:

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Old 08-25-2009, 11:22 AM
 
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Thanks for the replies they really do help! Your strip district kinda looks like our River Market actually... do people like the strip district or live there?

How is the driving in Pittsburgh to get around, where are your suburban neighborhoods? I prefer urban areas but sometimes ya gotta head to the burbs for certain things. Also where are the good shopping areas? My gf likes places like funky stores but also the normal standard ones like Hollister and Forever 21 type places... like I showed in the picture with KCs city area thats not downtown, around there is some unique places to shop that carry more.. I don't know alternative style clothing and ones with the higher end places like bebe, burberry, and armani... then stores like Hollister and Forever 21 you'd normally find in the burbs. We don't really have malls here, there is a couple but they are way far in the burbs at least to our location, more things like Zona Rosa :: Shopping, Dining, Entertainment, Apartments in Kansas City, Missouri which looks like Southside Works possibly? Not sure

We have a week we're taking off in a month or 2, might head up then to check things out. I do appreciate how helpful everyone has been!
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