Relo to Pitt from Chicago - HELP (Pittsburgh, Washington: transplants, sales)

[WhiteSox]

OK.... Looking at a relo to pitt from chicago

First - Pitt looks like a pretty cool place - Wife and I are 33, consider ourselves to be pretty "hip" and this will be our fist venture away from home.While pitt seems to be a great deal smaller, it seems to have big city qualities with a small town conveniences (Which I am really looking forward to).

Now - we have been doing some research on-line in relation to neighborhoods and real estate prices and I will have to say I am completely confused.

What we are looking for is a true value in a home – We will be tied to a 250K condo in Chicago and while we will rent it, we may have to pay a little out of pocket for assessments (Also want to allow for room in case a special assessment comes up). Our bugdet is about 175-250K and are also open to a fixer.


We are open to location as commuting to the central business district seems pretty easy from all surrounding areas. We would like to be close to the “cool stuff” but set up of the flats and lawrenceville is a complete turn off for us. Don’t want to be on top of our neighbors and we have 2 dogs that we would like to have a decent side yard for. Something safe and away from all the "big city things " that bring your home value down. I’m also looking for garage parking which seems to be hard to find in Pittsburgh. It seems weird to me as the weather there sucks just as bad as Chicago and I would think people would like covered parking.


We have been looking in the following neighborhoods:
Mt Washington
The Slopes
Squirrel Hill
Shadyside
Also interested in - but dont know much about:
Friendsip
Bloomfeild
Garfield

The part that confuses me is that within all of the listed neighborhoods, prices vary from home to home a great deal. I can take into consideration that some will be larger, have better upgrades/updates, bigger lots, parking, proximity to transportation and seller motivation but I have noticed homes that are fairly similar have been priced almost 30-40K apart.

Again, I’m not afraid of a fixer and to be honest – I may not need one as the market in pitt is so much cheaper than in Chicago. From what I have read, all the above mentioned neighborhoods are good to decent and each have their own “perks” to offer. Just can’t get a handle on why the major pricing swings.

All said and done… I think I’m going to have to live in the area for 3 months before I make a decision but figured I would ask this prior to my arrival.

Any insight you can provide would be very helpful. Also - any info from someone who lives in pitt on the above neighborhoods is welcomed.

Thanks in advace for your time and input!

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by WhiteSox

The part that confuses me is that within all of the listed neighborhoods, prices vary from home to home a great deal. I can take into consideration that some will be larger, have better upgrades/updates, bigger lots, parking, proximity to transportation and seller motivation but I have noticed homes that are fairly similar have been priced almost 30-40K apart.

Pittsburgh's real estate market is differnet from other areas of the country. Neighborhood and township drive housing prices more than street or block. It's not uncommon for an expensive house to be surrounded by fixer-uppers. Assessment comparables can be 1/2 a mile away. A 30-40k range could simply represent how quickly the owner wants/needs to sell.

Be forewarned, Pittsburgher's aren't known for being trendy people who invest in upgrades. You might expect the more expensive house to have a newer kitchen, but that's not necessarily the case. It's common for transplants looking at Pittsburgh real estate to complain about the 1950s, 1970s kitchens.

A house with a nasty kitchen might be higher priced due to size of yard, location or simply because the owner BELIEVES their house is worth the same as updated houses. It's not uncommon for people to price their houses higher because they're able and willing to sit on a house for as long as it takes to get what they want.

[WhiteSox]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Be forewarned, Pittsburgher's aren't known for being trendy people who invest in upgrades. You might expect the more expensive house to have a newer kitchen, but that's not necessarily the case. It's common for transplants looking at Pittsburgh real estate to complain about the 1950s, 1970s kitchens.

Thanks for the info... thing is even the houses with the nice upgrades are a good price as compared to the chicago market.

One thing I also noticed is that condos seem to be priced very expensive. as compared to homes. That includes the lofts in the downtown aera and some in the squirrel hill neighborhoods. Again, this throws me for a loop.

[pcc09]

I think one of the reasons that the condos can be more expensive is that, like Hopes pointed out, a lot of houses in Pittsburgh haven't had interior upgrades done since about 1972. They still have the classic puke green or harvest gold refrigerator and matching stove along with carpeted kitchen floors and shag rug with faux wood panel walls in the living room. Most of the condo's are probably fairly new and modern and, in that sense, more appealing. No fix up needed. You could always use the difference in savings to upgrade the house if it's worth it to you.
There are a lot of houses in the Bloomfield and Friendship area that fall into the category of cheap but in desperate need of an interior upgrade and maybe a little vinyl siding removal and brick restoration. Not that the houses weren't taken care of, just that they are severely out-dated. I think that a lot of the houses in Pittsburgh have been inhabited by the same families since the 50's and 60's and as they grew old they never felt the need to upgrade since they felt comfortable with the familiarity or something. The only upgrade they made was often to cover up the beautiful brick and exterior ornamentation with vinyl siding. On the plus side you can buy these houses cheap and upgrade them exactly how you please.

[BrianTH]

Getting good comparables in many of Pittsburgh's older neighborhoods is simply a nightmare. This is true for many reasons, including the relatively small size of many neighborhoods (which means fewer recent sales to work with), large variations in terms of size (structures and lots), large variations in quality and condition, local variations in location desirability, and so forth. This state of affairs is reflected in listings, which not only reflect legitimate difference in properties but also an added layer of confusion over appropriate comparables.

As for condos/lofts, we are undoubtedly undersupplied with such units in the most desirable central locations (which would include Downtown and Squirrel Hill). Developers are working on meeting this need, but it takes time to get projects through the pipeline, and recent national events haven't helped (things haven't come to a standstill here, unlike in some places, but my understanding is that financing for new projects is currently hard to come by). So I think it may be quite a while before the market for units like that reaches a normal supply/demand balance.

[pcc09]

Just to add to your list of neighborhoods to consider...Point Breeze, Regent Square, and Highland Park are all nice, near amenities, and you won't be on top of your neighbors.

[WhiteSox]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Getting good comparables in many of Pittsburgh's older neighborhoods is simply a nightmare. This is true for many reasons, including the relatively small size of many neighborhoods (which means fewer recent sales to work with), large variations in terms of size (structures and lots), large variations in quality and condition, local variations in location desirability, and so forth. This state of affairs is reflected in listings, which not only reflect legitimate difference in properties but also an added layer of confusion over appropriate comparables.

As for condos/lofts, we are undoubtedly undersupplied with such units in the most desirable central locations (which would include Downtown and Squirrel Hill). Developers are working on meeting this need, but it takes time to get projects through the pipeline, and recent national events haven't helped (things haven't come to a standstill here, unlike in some places, but my understanding is that financing for new projects is currently hard to come by). So I think it may be quite a while before the market for units like that reaches a normal supply/demand balance.

Both very valid points.... jsut to get an idea as to te actual size of pitt (I was only there for 1 day, stuck in the PNC Building, and interviewing with 5 people). How long would it take to drive from Highland Park to the South Side (carson street shops/food)?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by WhiteSox

Both very valid points.... jsut to get an idea as to te actual size of pitt (I was only there for 1 day, stuck in the PNC Building, and interviewing with 5 people). How long would it take to drive from Highland Park to the Sout Side (carson street shops/food)?

It is about 5 or 6 miles from Highland Park to getting off the Birmingham Bridge on the South Side (your exact distance will depend on where you are in Highland Park and where you are going on the South Side). How long that would take would depend on time of day and traffic: probably around 20 minutes at light times, maybe even less, to 30 or more in heavy traffic times.

By the way, although not long, that isn't a trip a lot of people are going to be doing on a regular basis: Highland Park people are more likely to be going to the stuff in East Liberty, Shadyside, and Squirrel Hill, just because it is so much more convenient for them.

[pcc09]

The city is small in area, only about 55 square miles. Most cities are much, much larger. Chicago is over 200 square miles. But what is considered the metropolitan area is fairly large. It's just that the city hasn't annexed new land like a lot of other cities have done in order to grow.
Depending on traffic, I would guess Highland Park to East Carson would take about 15-20 minutes.

[onwardandupward]

Going through your list:

Mt Washington, The Slopes - These two I have to pass on as I don't know much about either.

Squirrel Hill - Very good neighborhood, safe, can choose to be near parks for dogs, could find a house in your price range with a side yard.

Shadyside - also nice, but pretty much out of your price range. Maybe a condo, but that shoots the side yard idea.

Friendship - a good possibility, not quite as safe as Squirrel Hill, but if you stay closer to Liberty Ave. than Penn Ave., still pretty safe.

Bloomfield - if you don't like Lawrenceville to live in, you probably won't like Bloomfield - houses are very close together, very small yards. However, there are homes that are technically in Bloomfield that realtors may call Friendship that have more yard space. Generally a safe area.

Garfield - up and coming area, but definitely transitional. If safety is one of your high priorities, I would not sugest Garfield.

Other areas to look at: Highland Park - very nice areas near the actual Highland Park, Regent Square - an area with a real small-town feel (mostly) in the city, and Point Breeze. All have nearby parks, are safe, and most homes would have either a side or backyard.