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For people to have an idea of what school districts you are referring to.
People who ACTUALLY LIVE in Pittsburgh already know where all of the school districts in Allegheny County are located.
I have been very clear from the very start that I will not divulge more detailed information, which you seem to be overly focused.
The location is irrelevant to this discussion. It's especially irrelevant for someone like you who doesn't even know Pittsburgh for goodness sake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
I did notice that the first ring Northern suburban schools actually have pretty high to relatively high percentages of Black students.
You seem less concerned with having a real intellectual discussion of this issue, and more concerned with playing internet sluth. You don't know the area, and your inaccurate comments could be detrimental. The first ring of northern districts don't have a higher percentage of minorities compared to the inner ring of the eastern districts or other inner ring districts for that matter. Regardless, you can do all the internet research you want and you won't find statistics on what I'm talking about because it only happened this year. You are wrong about this new trend only applying to the inner ring districts and/or only northern districts in general. I have been very CLEAR about that. Maybe you speak English as a second language. I can't imagine any other reason for your failure to comprehend this.
So, do you want to have a REAL discussion about these dynamics, or do you want to continue to try stir up racial controversy by focusing on identifying the location?
People who ACTUALLY LIVE in Pittsburgh already know where all of the school districts in Allegheny County are located.
I have been very clear from the very start that I will not divulge more detailed information, which you seem to be overly focused.
The location is irrelevant to this discussion. It's especially irrelevant for someone like you who doesn't even know Pittsburgh for goodness sake.
You seem less concerned with having a real intellectual discussion of this issue, and more concerned with playing internet sluth. You don't know the area, and your inaccurate comments could be detrimental. The first ring of northern districts don't have a higher percentage of minorities compared to the inner ring of the eastern districts or other inner ring districts for that matter. Regardless, you can do all the internet research you want and you won't find statistics on what I'm talking about because it only happened this year. You are wrong about this new trend only applying to the inner ring districts and/or only northern districts in general. I have been very CLEAR about that. Maybe you speak English as a second language. I can't imagine any other reason for your failure to comprehend this.
So, do you want to have a REAL discussion about these dynamics, or do you want to continue to try stir up racial controversy by focusing on identifying the location?
Slow down and read the post again. I said RELATIVELY higher percentage of Black students, for one.
Second, I gave solutions, but I also want to know if what you are saying is legitimate and to answer why the relatively large influx of these students into these districts, recently. That in turn could answer some of your questions as to why said students might congregate mainly with each other, if that is the case. You don't have to be from Pittsburgh to ask or answer those questions and it doesn't have anything to do with controversy of any kind. Maybe you are making more out of it than you have to.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 09-12-2009 at 06:11 PM..
Slow down and read the post again. I said RELATIVELY higher percentage of Black students, for one.
That's not my issue with what you're doing.
Your statement applies to all first ring districts, not just first ring districts in the north.
Furthermore, this new trend doesn't only apply to first ring districts.
I'm simply blown away by your need to overly focus on the WHERE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Second, I gave solutions, but I also want to know if what you are saying is legitimate and to answer why the relatively large influx of these students into these districts, recently. That in turn could answer some of your questions as to why said students might congregate mainly with each other, if that is the case.
Oh, so this comes down to your not believing me. Well, you have to take my word for it since it's too soon to show up in statistics. There is not one Pittsburgher here who has even wanted to discredit my view of the historical perspective of the northern suburbs in this regard. That should tell you something. If what I was saying was remotely false, Pittsburghers would have turned this thread into a flame war. They haven't because I speak the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
You don't have to be from Pittsburgh to ask or answer those questions and it doesn't have anything to do with controversy of any kind. Maybe you are making more out of it than you have to.
I think you've proven that you do need to be from Pittsburgh to discuss this issue. Not all areas of the country are the same. That's become fairly obvious.
Your statement applies to all first ring districts, not just first ring districts in the north.
Furthermore, this new trend doesn't only apply to first ring districts.
I'm simply blown away by your need to overly focus on the WHERE.
Oh, so this comes down to your not believing me. Well, you have to take my word for it since it's too soon to show up in statistics. There is not one Pittsburgher here who has even wanted to discredit my view of the historical perspective of the northern suburbs in this regard. That should tell you something. If what I was saying was remotely false, Pittsburghers would have turned this thread into a flame war. They haven't because I speak the truth.
I think you've proven that you do need to be from Pittsburgh to discuss this issue. Not all areas of the country are the same. That's become fairly obvious.
OK, sure. You win.
I just don't get how I "focused" on all inner ring suburbs, when I said some of the inner ring Northern suburbs. No need to get defensive. It's just an observation.
There have been comments from people that live outside of and I'm assuming in the Pittsburgh area on this topic. What you are talking about isn't exclusive to just the Northern suburbs of Pittsburgh or the Pittsburgh area in general. Hence, my questions and examples from other places. How dare I bring those things up.
Anyway, I think the closing of Schenley in 2011 might have something to do with some families moving to that part of the metro. Maybe there is some gentrification going on in their former neighborhoods, as one poster mentioned that people are moving back into the city of Pittsburgh. That in turn could bring about some resentment by their new residents to the Northern suburbs and cause an environment of "sticking together" in a new environment. there could be a number of complex factors as to why things are the way they are regarding these newer minority students in that part of the Pittsburgh metro.
It would be nice to hear from some of these newer residents to see what their experiences have been as well.
Anyway, I think the closing of Schenley in 2011 might have something to do with some families moving to that part of the metro.
2011 is a couple years away. As a parent, I wouldn't move a Senior to another district simply because their high school would be closing AFTER they graduated. I'd move a Senior if I felt his/her school or neigbhorhood was unsafe and I finally could afford to move.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Maybe there is some gentrification going on in their former neighborhoods, as one poster mentioned that people are moving back into the city of Pittsburgh.
Pittsburgh's city neighborhoods are very segregated. Sadly, the black neighborhoods are mostly ghettos. There's no gentriciation going on there. The only thing driving them out of those neighborhoods is crime, not increasing property values or whatever. People who are moving back into the city are generally people who are moving to Pittsburgh from other cities. They are moving into the trendy neighborhoods or the up and coming neighborhoods. The ghettos aren't one of those areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
That in turn could bring about some resentment by their new residents to the Northern suburbs and cause an environment of "sticking together" in a new environment.
I think it's more likely that they were self-segregating in the previous inner-city school because the racial dynamic was probably changed in the past by merging or bussing, and they simply are behaving the way they normally behaved in response to forced merging and bussing, not realizing that they don't need to self-segregate in their new school because the same resentments don't exist in their new school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
It would be nice to hear from some of these newer residents to see what their experiences have been as well.
I'm just a little perplexed as to why you can't believe that people are merely moving to live in a safer neighborhood with better schools. That's the reason many of my friends moved their children from the inner city to the suburbs. It makes sense that the trend would increase as people who moved earlier reported positive experiences. Since this is a new era, the old reasons don't necessarily apply. That's a good thing!
2011 is a couple years away. As a parent, I wouldn't move a Senior to another district simply because their high school would be closing AFTER they graduated. I'd move a Senior if I felt his/her school or neigbhorhood was unsafe and I finally could afford to move.
Pittsburgh's city neighborhoods are very segregated. Sadly, the black neighborhoods are mostly ghettos. There's no gentriciation going on there. The only thing driving them out of those neighborhoods is crime, not increasing property values or whatever. People who are moving back into the city are generally people who are moving to Pittsburgh from other cities. They are moving into the trendy neighborhoods or the up and coming neighborhoods. The ghettos aren't one of those areas.
I think it's more likely that they were self-segregating in the previous inner-city school because the racial dynamic was probably changed in the past by merging or bussing, and they simply are behaving the way they normally behaved in response to forced merging and bussing, not realizing that they don't need to self-segregate in their new school because the same resentments don't exist in their new school.
I'm just a little perplexed as to why you can't believe that people are merely moving to live in a safer neighborhood with better schools. That's the reason many of my friends moved their children from the inner city to the suburbs. It makes sense that the trend would increase as people who moved earlier reported positive experiences. Since this is a new era, the old reasons don't necessarily apply. That's a good thing!
Wow! OK, if these people live in "ghettos", how are they able to move to the most affluent suburbs in the Pittsburgh metro? While times have changed, let's not act like racism doesn't exist or that all is well. You have to consider that if they are from the ghetto, they are probably going to be less open to interact RIGHT AWAY considering that their former neighborhoods were predominately Black due to many factors.
Also, what neighborhoods are out of towners moving to? You mentioned "up and coming". I'm sure those neighborhoods weren't the greatest at one time recently. Gentrification is about people moving to such neighborhoods, that were down not too long ago, but are making a comeback, in a sense. What were the demographics of these "up and coming" not too long ago?
As for the Schenley thing, I'm saying that why would kids stay in a school that is going to close anyway? Maybe some kids are going to move to the Northern suburbs because an educational option that they liked will be gone. Say if a kid that lives in East Liberty went there, maybe his or her family would take the 62nd St. Bridge into the Northern suburbs to live, considering it's not that far away.
Wow! OK, if these people live in "ghettos", how are they able to move to the most affluent suburbs in the Pittsburgh metro? While times have changed, let's not act like racism doesn't exist or that all is well. You have to consider that if they are from the ghetto, they are probably going to be less open to interact RIGHT AWAY considering that their former neighborhoods were predominately Black due to many factors.
Also, what neighborhoods are out of towners moving to? You mentioned "up and coming". I'm sure those neighborhoods weren't the greatest at one time recently. Gentrification is about people moving to such neighborhoods, that were down not too long ago, but are making a comeback, in a sense. What were the demographics of these "up and coming" not too long ago?
As for the Schenley thing, I'm saying that why would kids stay in a school that is going to close anyway? Maybe some kids are going to move to the Northern suburbs because an educational option that they liked will be gone. Say if a kid that lives in East Liberty went there, maybe his or her family would take the 62nd St. Bridge into the Northern suburbs to live, considering it's not that far away.
Black families who move to upper middle class areas do not come from places like Braddock or the South Side. Most middle and upper middle class familes have been for generations and choose to move from places like Stanton Heights, Penn Hills, Churchhill, Wilkinburg(Blackridge) for property value. Most east end blacks would move to an eastern or northern suburb before a western or southern because the east and north is more progressive and cosmo. The east by far Monroeville, Murrysville, Plum is more attractive because it has had minority enclaves for years. Blacks who move to the southern suburban areas tend to be from outside of the Pittsburgh area. Self segragation!!!!!! A black student with a household income of $100,000.00+ will not associate with a black student who lives just above the poverty level. The Penn Hills school district does not have racial tentions because the average black household earns $10,000.00 more than the typical white. Woodland Hills on the other hand has poor white, poor black, middle class white, middle class black,. This causes serious tentions. A child from a upper middle class Churchill neighborhoods (black or white) attending school with children from Rankin and Braddock!!!!!!!!!!!! OIL and Water
Black families who move to upper middle class areas do not come from places like Braddock or the South Side. Most middle and upper middle class familes have been for generations and choose to move from places like Stanton Heights, Penn Hills, Churchhill, Wilkinburg(Blackridge) for property value. Most east end blacks would move to an eastern or northern suburb before a western or southern because the east and north is more progressive and cosmo. The east by far Monroeville, Murrysville, Plum is more attractive because it has had minority enclaves for years. Blacks who move to the southern suburban areas tend to be from outside of the Pittsburgh area. Self segragation!!!!!! A black student with a household income of $100,000.00+ will not associate with a black student who lives just above the poverty level. The Penn Hills school district does not have racial tentions because the average black household earns $10,000.00 more than the typical white. Woodland Hills on the other hand has poor white, poor black, middle class white, middle class black,. This causes serious tentions. A child from a upper middle class Churchill neighborhoods (black or white) attending school with children from Rankin and Braddock!!!!!!!!!!!! OIL and Water
I mentioned things like this about my area and others, for pretty much the same or similar reasons. I would think most Blacks middle class folks would be in the Eastern suburbs and the Northern suburbs closer to the city of Pittsburgh due to the Eastern sububs having quite a few Black folks for a longer time.
Would Sto-Rox and Northgate be considered Northern or Western? What about Avondale?
I know that North Hills, North Allegheny, Shaler and Fox Chapel have a few Black people too.
In the South, what about Elizabeth Forward, West Mifflin and Steel Valley?
What are some others where you see a "decent" amount of Black students/people?
Would Sto-Rox and Northgate be considered Northern or Western? What about Avondale?
I know that North Hills, North Allegheny, Shaler and Fox Chapel have a few Black people too.
In the South, what about Elizabeth Forward, West Mifflin and Steel Valley?
What are some others where you see a "decent" amount of Black students/people?
Sewickley
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