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Black families who move to upper middle class areas do not come from places like Braddock or the South Side. Most middle and upper middle class familes have been for generations and choose to move from places like Stanton Heights, Penn Hills, Churchhill, Wilkinburg(Blackridge) for property value. Most east end blacks would move to an eastern or northern suburb before a western or southern because the east and north is more progressive and cosmo. The east by far Monroeville, Murrysville, Plum is more attractive because it has had minority enclaves for years. Blacks who move to the southern suburban areas tend to be from outside of the Pittsburgh area. Self segragation!!!!!! A black student with a household income of $100,000.00+ will not associate with a black student who lives just above the poverty level. The Penn Hills school district does not have racial tentions because the average black household earns $10,000.00 more than the typical white. Woodland Hills on the other hand has poor white, poor black, middle class white, middle class black,. This causes serious tentions. A child from a upper middle class Churchill neighborhoods (black or white) attending school with children from Rankin and Braddock!!!!!!!!!!!! OIL and Water
Despite the horrid grammar and spelling, I'd say that every sentence in this post is spot-on accurate.
Most east end blacks would move to an eastern or northern suburb before a western or southern because the east and north is more progressive and cosmo......Blacks who move to the southern suburban areas tend to be from outside of the Pittsburgh area.
Isn't it interesting how the south is less progressive? Why do you think transplants tend to chose the South? Is it simply because they don't know the area well enough?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
I mentioned things like this about my area and others, for pretty much the same or similar reasons. I would think most Blacks middle class folks would be in the Eastern suburbs and the Northern suburbs closer to the city of Pittsburgh due to the Eastern sububs having quite a few Black folks for a longer time.
You were focusing on forced displacement being the main reason; meanwhile, crime and wanting a better school district is the main reason in Pittsburgh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Would Sto-Rox and Northgate be considered Northern or Western? What about Avondale?
Technically Western, but many consider them the western part of the North because they're all on the same side of the rivers. Pittsburgh's weird like that about the rivers.
Those areas aren't as far away as they appear. They can be accessed by the northern districts very quickly via back roads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zip95
Sewickley
Agreed. I'd say almost any of the better districts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zip95
Despite the horrid grammar and spelling, I'd say that every sentence in this post is spot-on accurate.
I'm glad wpipkins validated my claim that the north is fairly progressive. Wpipkins indirectly validated the main people move is crime and wanting better school districts. For example, crime is getting out of hand in Wilkinsburg---lots of spill over from the adjacent ghettos. Woodland Hills is having a very difficult time. I'm sure anyone who can afford to move from there is doing so. A couple of years ago, I met a lot of black families who were pulling their children from Woodland Hills in the middle of the school year and putting them into cyber school because the school environment had exploded.
What I don't understand is the segregation between neighborhoods and economic classes among blacks described by wpipkins. I understand to an extent because there is an economic segregation between whites to a degree simply because not everyone can afford to live in the same areas. However, white students from different economic backgrounds do tend to be friends with all economic classes. There are no economic tensions in the northern suburban school districts. And wars between districts and nieghborhoods aren't very common these days either. If students meet people through church or activities who live in other school districts, they do become friends. But wpipkins said black students from a 100k income level 'will not associate' with low income blacks. Meanwhile, my children and their friends will associate with low income whites and blacks.
Why is there so much self segregation within the black community?
What I don't understand is the segregation between neighborhoods and economic classes among blacks described by wpipkins. I understand to an extent because there is an economic segregation between whites to a degree simply because not everyone can afford to live in the same areas. However, white students from different economic backgrounds do tend to be friends with all economic classes. There are no economic tensions in the northern suburban school districts. And wars between districts and nieghborhoods aren't very common these days either. If students meet people through church or activities who live in other school districts, they do become friends. But wpipkins said black students from a 100k income level 'will not associate' with low income blacks. Meanwhile, my children and their friends will associate with low income whites and blacks.
Why is there so much self segregation within the black community?
That's not true at all Hopes. Shaler had serious all white economic tensions, Fox Chapel still has troubles with the Sharpsburg "river rats" vs the "rich" kids... America is built on economic tensions and to say otherwise is to deny reality... The trailor parks and the McMansions have never mixed... If anything, I'd say that traditional white culture is the prototype when it comes to dividing and separating people. White collar neighborhood, blue collar neighborhood, yuppie, red neck, working class, upper class, white trash... It shouldn't be a surprise or a shock when well-off black kids call poor black kids ghetto
Any school district has problems when there is a merge---even if the economic demographics are the same (Pine and Richland for example). These tensions disappear within a few years. Seriously, years, not decades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zip95
Shaler had serious all white economic tensions....
Shaler hasn't had white economic tensions since the 70s, when the district was merged with Reserve, Etna and Millvale. I used the present tense in my post. Shaler students are friends with students from all over Shaler. The same applies to North Hills or any other district in the northern suburbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zip95
Fox Chapel still has troubles with the Sharpsburg "river rats" vs the "rich" kids...
Where do you think the 'rich' kids buy their drugs? (People don't sell drugs to their enemies or strangers in the suburbs. Drug dealing is not a street corner type of enterprise in Sharpsburg.) For the record, the truly rich kids go to private schools. Fox Chapel has a lot of rural students in addition to Sharpsburg students. There is a definite intermingling of classes in Fox Chapel. Fox Chapel students still base their friendships on common interests which spans classes. I'll grant you Fox Chapel does have more than its share of random snob families (who don't really deserve to be since they send their children to public school), but it's not across the board and I wouldn't call it tensions. There aren't riots in Fox Chapel like Woodland Hills. I'd say that Sharpsburg's drug problem is more divisive than the economics. Students from all classes aren't permitted to be friends with students whose parents are crack addicts. Sadly, Fox Chapel has more than its share of those.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zip95
America is built on economic tensions and to say otherwise is to deny reality... The trailor parks and the McMansions have never mixed...
I'll admit that has been the norm in our country. I guess I've been sheltered in the northern suburbs for too long. Economic classes do in fact mix in the northern suburbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zip95
It shouldn't be a surprise or a shock when well-off black kids call poor black kids ghetto
No. I'm not surprised. As you said, there are nicknames for the white students who come from Sharpsburg (river rats), Etna (etnoids), Millvale (not really sure). However, that doesn't mean that students from upper economic classes don't associate with students who come from those areas. There is a stereotype for sure, but it's mostly ignored and only relevant when someone is particularly fullfilling the stereotype.
I got the distinct impression from wpipkins post that upper-middle-class black students WILL NOT ASSOCIATE with poor black students. I stand by what I say when that's not the case with white students---generally---in the northern districts. Perhaps some parents wish otherwise, but the students dont' chose their friends according to economics. Sure, there's the occassional snob family, but snobs aren't the norm in most northern suburbs. Even then, it's rather difficult to raise snob children when they are surrounded by classmates from all backgrounds. Trust me. I know. My mother tried.
Isn't it interesting how the south is less progressive? Why do you think transplants tend to chose the South? Is it simply because they don't know the area well enough?
You were focusing on forced displacement being the main reason; meanwhile, crime and wanting a better school district is the main reason in Pittsburgh.
Technically Western, but many consider them the western part of the North because they're all on the same side of the rivers. Pittsburgh's weird like that about the rivers.
Those areas aren't as far away as they appear. They can be accessed by the northern districts very quickly via back roads.
Agreed. I'd say almost any of the better districts.
I'm glad wpipkins validated my claim that the north is fairly progressive. Wpipkins indirectly validated the main people move is crime and wanting better school districts. For example, crime is getting out of hand in Wilkinsburg---lots of spill over from the adjacent ghettos. Woodland Hills is having a very difficult time. I'm sure anyone who can afford to move from there is doing so. A couple of years ago, I met a lot of black families who were pulling their children from Woodland Hills in the middle of the school year and putting them into cyber school because the school environment had exploded.
What I don't understand is the segregation between neighborhoods and economic classes among blacks described by wpipkins. I understand to an extent because there is an economic segregation between whites to a degree simply because not everyone can afford to live in the same areas. However, white students from different economic backgrounds do tend to be friends with all economic classes. There are no economic tensions in the northern suburban school districts. And wars between districts and nieghborhoods aren't very common these days either. If students meet people through church or activities who live in other school districts, they do become friends. But wpipkins said black students from a 100k income level 'will not associate' with low income blacks. Meanwhile, my children and their friends will associate with low income whites and blacks.
Why is there so much self segregation within the black community?
No, i wasn't, but I was asking or wondering it it was a contributing factor.
Also, the supposed "self segregation within" Black community is no different than what you see in any other community where economics is a factor. I agree with zip95 on this one, as I went to a suburban district in my area that was 93-95% White and saw that up close. If it wasn't within the same district, it was with adjacent schools districts with economics being a factor alonng with ethnicity. For instance, my district was more middle to upper middle class, where as the adjacent rival school was more working class blue collar. My district was very Irish American and pretty much standard suburbia and the rival school was mostly Italian American and had a Steel Mill and a Chemical Processing plant. both had their share of people of Polish/Ukrainian descent, with my school being about 2% Black and 3-5% Asian too. Sounds familiar?
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