G20. It's Over! (Pittsburgh, Penn: bus, public transportation, estimates)

[creepsinc]

Originally Posted by raubre

Seattle is the Portland of the West? How much farther west?

I meant I lived in Seattle so I'm very familiar with "Portland West" (meaning, the one in Oregon). It's about 2.5 hours away and one of the only sizable cities besides Vancouver BC that you can drive to for the day when you need a change of scenery (in-joke for people familiar with the PNW. It all looks pretty much the same).

To reiterate, and to stay on topic, Pittsburgh is somewhat similar to Portland as far as East Coast cities go. They seem to be trying to go in that direction with the whole green thing, too.

[Impala26]

Moderator cut: orphaned, the post you were quoting was removed/edited

And yes, I overstated the transit stuff about D.C. The difference being with D.C. is that they can afford to build 12+ lane giga-freeways and continue to widen them, whereas here ours are average 4 to 6 and the widest is what, the 6+2 HOV on the Parkway North? And we do not have the terrain to support widening them.

I've just always been disappointed with Pittsburgh's transit in terms of reliability. We do have numerous bus routes, but they still generally follow the same choke-point slow avenues and freeways most commuters use anyway. Also, the fares are relatively high and volatile.

I only compare it to Portland's because when generally talking about ideal and effective networks, which comes up more often ours or Portland's?

[creepsinc]

Originally Posted by Impala26

Moderator cut: orphaned, the post you were quoting was removed/edited

And yes, I overstated the transit stuff about D.C. The difference being with D.C. is that they can afford to build 12+ lane giga-freeways and continue to widen them, whereas here ours are average 4 to 6 and the widest is what, the 6+2 HOV on the Parkway North? And we do not have the terrain to support widening them.

I've just always been disappointed with Pittsburgh's transit in terms of reliability. We do have numerous bus routes, but they still generally follow the same choke-point slow avenues and freeways most commuters use anyway. Also, the fares are relatively high and volatile.

I only compare it to Portland's because when generally talking about ideal and effective networks, which comes up more often ours or Portland's?

Moderator cut: orphaned, the post you were quoting was removed/edited

The main problem I have with the Port Authority is the ridiculous fares (the worst of any city I've lived in) and the lack of T routes. If the T went up north and out east (Oakland and South Side), it would rival Portland's.

[BrianTH]

There is no doubt the Pittsburgh transit system could (and should) be greatly improved. I think the recently released Transit Development Plan is a moderate step in the right direction, but even for the TDP to achieve its potential will take a little upfront investment. And to really put together a comprehensive, integrated network would take much more investment--so we'll have to see if the money becomes available for that.

[groar]

i just can't wait til we have REAL transit cards and you don't have to buy weekly and monthly cards at the beginning of the week/month!

i think pittsburgh's public transit is decent though - it's not the best, but a lot better than a lot of other cities. we could definitely use more rail. i live near a busway stop and work downtown so it's perfect for my needs. i do think the transit plan is a step in the right direction too. it's nice to see PAT making changes that seem like they'll actually improve things for once.

and i'm sorry to comment on the trolling, but i love the "i bet you voted for obama" thing. there's a big thread about pit bull breed bans, which is an issue that clearly cuts across party lines, in the political board. yet it's full of people calling each other typical liberals or typical conservatives for supporting the view opposite theirs.

"i don't like you. you must have voted for the other party in the last presidential election."

[ctoocheck]

The East Busway and the South T bring approximately the same number of people into town each day.

This I believe. The South (and west) BUSWAY though... not quite as many if I recall. And relative to construction costs, not very effective. Plus the S Busway seems to kind of compete with T service.

[raubre]

Originally Posted by groar

i just can't wait til we have REAL transit cards and you don't have to buy weekly and monthly cards at the beginning of the week/month!

i think pittsburgh's public transit is decent though - it's not the best, but a lot better than a lot of other cities. we could definitely use more rail. i live near a busway stop and work downtown so it's perfect for my needs. i do think the transit plan is a step in the right direction too. it's nice to see PAT making changes that seem like they'll actually improve things for once.

and i'm sorry to comment on the trolling, but i love the "i bet you voted for obama" thing. there's a big thread about pit bull breed bans, which is an issue that clearly cuts across party lines, in the political board. yet it's full of people calling each other typical liberals or typical conservatives for supporting the view opposite theirs.

"i don't like you. you must have voted for the other party in the last presidential election."

I really don't think that PAT is that bad. Yes the busses aren't tidy. Yes the drivers show up whenever they want, yes the busses break down a lot, yes many routes don't make sense.... OK thta is a lot. Anyway, as a bus rider I learn to expect PAT's many faults and I am OK with what we got. Defenitely there is much needed improvement and with the new development plan that they have, it may either help or may be a huge dissapointment (it can go either way.) I never ridden public transportation in othe rcities, so I can't compare.

I guess my question would be, how is the transportation in better cities? To avoid going off topic, maybe start a new thread on this question?

[groar]

this thread is already way off topic, but it's honestly a more interesting topic than yet another G20 thread, no offense to the OP!

i'd say that the cities that have better public transportation tend to have extensive subway/elevated train/rail systems which aren't hampered by traffic, including suburban rail service, have 24 hour service, have rechargeable transit cards that can have a week or month's pass added at any time and can be paid for online, and have better information available, be it a schedule and map at the bus or subway stop and/or displays indicating when the next bus or train is actually coming. cleanliness and comfort are bonuses too.

one of the best public transportation systems i've used is london's, although it's super expensive. it has all of the qualities mentioned above and is very easy to navigate despite being pretty complicated. i spent a long time there recently and was able to get around using a map and the information available at bus stops without planning out my route in advance. new york's is very good too, although lacking in the information at stops department (at least as of the last time i visited; it's been a while). at least they have schedules posted at most bus stops, which is more than pittsburgh has.

[JoeLeaphorn]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The county averages are deceiving. We have a particular problem that is largely localized in the Clairton area, but it is severe enough to throw off the numbers for the entire county. And US Steel is investing many millions in addressing that problem.

Investing? They are under a consent decree which is forcing them to do this.

Oh, and did anybody know where the 30,000 protesters we were supposed to get for the G-20 ended up? Maybe they couldn't get here because Amtrak and Greyhound couldn't.

[Impala26]

Originally Posted by JoeLeaphorn

Investing? They are under a consent decree which is forcing them to do this.

Oh, and did anybody know where the 30,000 protesters we were supposed to get for the G-20 ended up? Maybe they couldn't get here because Amtrak and Greyhound couldn't.

Yeah, there were only at the most a couple thousand ever organized at one place at any given time. The last Oakland super bowl riot dwarfed that like 5 times over!

And as for this thread getting off topic... I will take the blame for that, I was the one originally making the "are we the Portland of the East" comment and then going on a spiel about our transportation network.

What can I say? I have an interest in that field!