why is the Rivers Casino performing so poorly? (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: young professionals, buses)

[BrianTH]

Many regular gamblers don't accept the odds as applied to them--they believe there is some trick, or system, or strategy, or prayer, or magic, or whatever that can shape outcomes. And of course there are also the desperate, the addicted, and so on.

It is a sordid business, but there is really virtually no chance that the casino will actually operate at a loss. The only question is whether it will be able to pay back the debt of building it, but the taxpayers are not on the hook for that directly (although the City and County may get less money if the casino is forced into bankruptcy).

[Renaldo5000]

Man, if they just had table games there I'd be present every day blowing my unemployment money.

[wanderlust76]

Originally Posted by Johnland

Well, I mean, who actually gambles? The odds are in the casinos favor - helloooo. Did they think Pittsburghers would just suddenly start gambling every week? The whole thing is absurd. The money to be had was on the construction contracts and operating licenses. Now its just up to the taxpayers to forever support it either directly (which they don't seem to be doing) or indirectly (which they most assuredly will).

I agree I went to The Rivers once and had no fun at all. I played slots and went through a hundred dollars in no time at all. If they aren't fun, what's the point of going to a casino? I could have went to Kennywood all day for 30 bucks, less with a discount. If casinos want to attract people then they need to start making slots that actually give you some play time and a decent shot of coming out at least even. A hundred dollars is a lot for the average American to spend on 15 minutes of entertainment. The whole thing is a sham for suckers.

I've had the same experience the last 5 times I've been to Wheeling Island...the only casino I can say I've had any fun at in the past 2 years is the Meadowlands for some reason. They have slots that The Rivers and Wheeling Island do not have and some of them seem to give you a little more bang for the buck.

[Icy Tea]

I was in AC last week and the casinos were as dead as last year, maybe even more so. Pa casinos have taken their bite but a lot of the people playing the slots were senior citizens and they were on the penny and nickel slots. Table games were not that busy. I don't think casinos anywhere will be making money anywhere for the next few years at least.

[BrianTH]

You can program slots to generate whatever odds you like, but trust me that the casinos always program them to have the odds in their favor. Part of the psychological game they are playing is that our brains are wired by evolution to detect patterns, and so we interpret randomly-generated series of events as having patterns that don't actually have a cause and therefore have no particular likelihood of being repeated in the future. That is a large part of what leads to people thinking they have a way of improving the odds (in this case, by going to a particular casino to play particular slots), as opposed to simply accepting that the whole thing is rigged against them and walking away.

[greg42]

Well, it's always going to be somewhat in the house favor, yeah. But in most cases casinos aren't allowed to program the slots just however they want. There's usually a minimum payout percentage, often calculated on an annual basis. In PA, the minimum is 85%. For the year mid-08 to mid-09 for casinos that were open in PA, the payout was all over 90%. This is actually a lot more payout than most lotteries (around 50% as I recall).

PA info: Pennsylvania Casinos

All states: American Casino Guide - Slot Payback Information (http://www.americancasinoguide.com/SlotPayback/slotinfo.shtml - broken link)

That said, it's a big redistribution scheme. Although that much money is paid out, yes, it's paid out to a lot fewer people than paid it in!

Table games are even less profitable than slots (according to news from a couple days ago), which I assume means even more of the total goes back in winnings. But because of the volume, it can obviously still be plenty profitable or there wouldn't be such an interest in having them.

All this said, they aren't likely to generate a ton of brand new gaming business by having newly authorized casinos in these various places. They're just going to siphon business away from others. Seems like eventually gaming will be even more widespread, and it will no longer be as much of a factor in choosing to visit a certain place. Will all those casinos continue to survive at that point? Hard to say. I would think not.

[BrianTH]

Yeah, I was just acknowledging it was technologically possible for casinos to offer better odds on slots if they wanted to do so. My point was that in actuality, the average payout doesn't tend to vary much between casinos serving the same market. For example, the poster above was reporting better luck at The Meadows versus Wheeling Island, but in truth the reported difference in average payout (90.77% versus 90.10%) would be undetectable in a normal playing session.

I believe it is true that table games typically have a higher payout than slots (more in the high 90s than the low 90s). The other primary reason table games are less profitable than slots is higher labor costs (dealers, croupiers, and so forth). So the tax on revenues has to be lower, but on the plus side they generate more jobs. They also draw from a somewhat different demographic (younger and more male), so the revenues/taxes are somewhat additive (up to your space limitations).

I gather studies suggest convenience of location can somewhat increase the total size of the gambling market, but there is no doubt a big part of what Pennsylvania is doing is trying to claw back money and jobs that would otherwise be going to New York, New Jersey, West Virginia, and so forth.

[Jrn14]

It's true people think just because there unlce's cousin's roomate's teacher's sister in-law's mailmans, great aunt esther had her purse snatched at three rivers stadium in 76 all of downtown and the surrounding areas is like a war zone.

[Benzman66]

Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124

Man, if they just had table games there I'd be present every day blowing my unemployment money.

Then get ready. The table games open for business tomorrow!

[gameguy56]

Originally Posted by Benzman66

Then get ready. The table games open for business tomorrow!

why has there been no advertising about this??