The 20 Minute Good Life-Where in Pittsburgh? (York, Oakmont: buyer, camping, income)

[PeterRabbit]

Oakmont

Riverside Park along the river has a football and baseball fields plus a fieldhouse with restrooms. The lower part of the park at the river has the high school track oval (many people go here to walk), basketball and tennis courts, childrens playground and picnic shelters. In the photo, the building at top center near the baseball diamond is the junior-senior high school.



A little-known park at the top of the hill is Dark Hollow Woods with several marked nature trails, walking bridges over creeks, "7 Caves," and the woods goes on for miles. People take their dogs here for long walks/runs. The grade school is 5 blocks from here, 15 blocks to the high school. There's people who have lived in Oakmont for years and have no idea of where Dark Hollow is if they even ever heard of it.



There are sidewalks all over town except in the better neighborhoods where they aren't needed as there's much less traffic. Crystal Drive, next to Dark Hollow, is a favorite place for people to walk or jog because it's fairly level and an oval (see map above). Oakmont is built on the side of a steep hill and you will rarely see people on bicycles except on the main street and toward the river where it's level. There's a variety of shopping and restaurants. It has a library, post office, movie theater, state store, yacht club, world famous country club plus a public golf course. The Arboretum Trail is nicely landscaped and walking only. There is rarely any entertainment. The town is about 1-1/4 square miles. Quality of life here is excellent.

[Hopes]

Those are still very small parks compared to the city and county parks. Even the city and county parks are small compared to the great outdoors of Oregon.

[PeterRabbit]

You said Oakmont has no parks of a decent size. Dark Hollow is huge so it goes to show you don't know much about Oakmont and just make stuff up. You've done that before regarding the U.S. Open. Is there a better match for what the OP wants?

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

In the last couple decades various entities have come up with a pretty good set of tools to use in successfully revitalizing economically depressed urban neighborhoods. It is slow, often contentious, work, requiring joint action by multiple stakeholders, but the basic path is pretty well marked at this point. And some formerly depressed Pittsburgh neighborhoods, such as East Liberty, have already gotten pretty far down this path.

Didn't East Liberty have it's economic downturn hastened in the 70s due to attempts to redevelop it with Penn Circle? I'm just saying that these gentrification plans can be dangerous and backfire.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by PeterRabbit

You said Oakmont has no parks of a decent size. Dark Hollow is huge so it goes to show you don't know much about Oakmont and just make stuff up. You've done that before regarding the U.S. Open. Is there a better match for what the OP wants?

Dark Hollow park is 610 acres -- slightly smaller than Hartwood Acres, which is the smallest of the Allegheny County Parks. North Park is over 3,000 acres.

Just because I'm not an Oakmont cheerleader doesn't mean I make stuff up.

Let's not forget that I was the first person to recommend Oakmont as a possibility over the past few weeks.

I'm not an Oakmont hater -- just not an Oakmont cheerleader.

As for the US Open, I think prospective buyers should know that their lives will be turned upside down with gridlock traffic when the US Open is at Oakmont.

[Fiddlehead]

Hey PeterRabbit,

I was checking out the Dark Hollow park in Google Earth. Looks pretty nice, sizable, and topographically diverse to me. I appreciate the new info. As it turns out, I am a riparian (riverside) ecologist by training, and the research I submitted to Pitt was a proposal to study the parks and natural areas of the Pittsburgh area. So, by that yardstick Riverside and Dark Hollow both sound quite nice.

Certainly, we will not find the richness of open space we have here in S. Oregon anywhere in PA. It is unusual for the whole US. However, I am open to various forms of open space and exposure to nature, and the rich woods within and around Pittsburgh, and especially the suburbs, is a pleasant surprise. Also, it appears there are wilder areas around, within a decent drive. The diversity of parks in the area is also nice, because it seems like one could go to a new park each weekend for the whole summer and taste different trails, scenery,etc. In favor of Pittsburgh, we would never see rivers like you have, deciduous forests, green grass in summer, and summer thunderstorms out here.

The whole perception of and ability to use nature is full of paradoxes. Many rural folks in farm country often do not have access to large parks, which are set aside for public enjoyment, and certain areas feel more or less secluded than others. For instance, although it has some of the finest mountains in N. America, one of the reasons we left the Front Range of Colorado in the 1990s was that it was an endless stream of "Prairie Palaces" that you could see for miles with little intervening vegetation. And all signs were pointing to more sprawl...but I digress...Anyhow, more wooded areas,like PA, can create a psychological screen more easily. And a 500 acre wood certainly feels more wild to me than a 500 acre prairie, but that not necessarily true and is clearly subjective.

Sorry to get academic here, one of my personal interests is the roles of parks and natural areas in conserving nature, providing enjoyment, and in educating folks about ecology. I currently work with large and fabulous national parks (Redwood, Crater Lake NP), but desire to understand this dynamic at many scales. I am wondering how relatively important a neighborhood park like Dark Hollow is that is used daily vs. a destination park like Crater Lake that local folks might visit twice per year and others once in a lifetime?

For instance, Crater Lake NP is 180,000 acres, but the typical visitor plunks down $20,drives around the rim road, snaps some amazing photos if the weather allows, buys a latte and Crater Lake cap, and leaves, all in about 2.5 hours. If someone were to walk in their 600 acre neighborhood park each week, observe the change of seasons, gradually learn the plants and birds, watch the effects of deer grazing, and participate in a stream cleanup, gets caught in a thunderstorm and watches that stream flood,etc. is that local park any less valuable?

[greg42]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Sorry to get academic here, one of my personal interests is the roles of parks and natural areas in conserving nature, providing enjoyment, and in educating folks about ecology. I currently work with large and fabulous national parks (Redwood, Crater Lake NP), but desire to understand this dynamic at many scales. I am wondering how relatively important a neighborhood park like Dark Hollow is that is used daily vs. a destination park like Crater Lake that local folks might visit twice per year and others once in a lifetime?

For instance, Crater Lake NP is 180,000 acres, but the typical visitor plunks down $20,drives around the rim road, snaps some amazing photos if the weather allows, buys a latte and Crater Lake cap, and leaves, all in about 2.5 hours. If someone were to walk in their 600 acre neighborhood park each week, observe the change of seasons, gradually learn the plants and birds, watch the effects of deer grazing, and participate in a stream cleanup, gets caught in a thunderstorm and watches that stream flood,etc. is that local park any less valuable?

Well certainly I would think both are valuable, and it's hard to say the local park is less valuable. It's just a different type of use.

Also, I have to say, I think the proximity is huge in that difference in use. If I lived next to Crater Lake NP, I would spend a whole lot more time there overall than if I'm passing through there on a trip to the northwest. At least, I think I would. Maybe not. Maybe it would be like those couple times a year locals you mention. But I don't think so. And no it wouldn't be daily like the municipal park, but with a place like that in your backyard, I think it would be hard not to go over there and spend some time most weeks.

This is actually something I've been thinking about recently. I watched the Ken Burns show (for what it's worth; it has its moments but overall kinda mediocre) which reminded me that Pittsburgh is not particularly close to a national park of the traditional mold. There are some NPS sites, all historic, but I get more interested in the parks that are preserving a natural landscape. Unless I'm forgetting something I think the closest national park like that is Shenandoah. Which of course isn't to say there aren't place of great natural beauty that are closer. It's just I had national parks on the brain, and I wish I could visit more of them more easily. The trips we take, like last spring's to the southwest (mainly New Mexico), are fantastic but always too short or maybe just too infrequent more likely.

[fleetiebelle]

I watched the Ken Burns show (for what it's worth; it has its moments but overall kinda mediocre) which reminded me that Pittsburgh is not particularly close to a national park of the traditional mold.

I thought so, too, and I'd never even heard of Cuyahoga Valley NP until I started poking around after the Burns miniseries: Cuyahoga Valley National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

[greg42]

Originally Posted by fleetiebelle

I thought so, too, and I'd never even heard of Cuyahoga Valley NP until I started poking around after the Burns miniseries: Cuyahoga Valley National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

Hey, thank you! I didn't catch that one either. Weird. I didn't look hard enough at Ohio, just knew that there were NPS sites there (every state except Delaware, heh). Didn't think any of them were a park like that, need to check it out.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by Hopes

As for the US Open, I think prospective buyers should know that their lives will be turned upside down with gridlock traffic when the US Open is at Oakmont.

Yeah, for all of one week, tops. Most people I know welcomed the US Open when it was held there a few years back. I attended the event and thought the traffic flow was excellent, it was run very professionally. And knowing at least, ahem, 1 bartender there I can tell you the local restaurants and watering holes enjoyed the event.

Best of all, no cell phones were allowed on the course. Loved it.