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I hear ya. These electricians are complaining about $30/hr, but many folks don't make that close to that with more education or experience. This is not dissing on tradesmen, just pointing out that they are far from the most underpaid. I am always amazed how little teachers make, for instance, and now everyone seems to like to micromanage them. Like we are all experts on education and talk about good and bad schools as if we could do it better. Many times they start in the high $20s or low $30s, and are expected to pick up an MA along the way at their own expense. And, I might be insane, but I think their jobs are important, but terribly undervalued. And how do folks working for such wages buy a $3-400k home? Can you say adjustable rate suicide loan? It's crazy right now for many people. Again, all this points to Pittsburgh being one of the last holdouts of sanity in the modern American economy.
$30 bucks for an electrician is pretty unusual outside of unions in Major Metro's (Boston, NY, Chicago, San Fran, etc). Keep in mind, most electricians are non union and aren't working in major metro areas. Non union electricians out here in Phoenix make $16-$22 bucks an hour. Even the union guys are under 25 bucks an hour.. And that's with no paid holidays or vacations. The benefits are brutal as well.... Non union electricians (with 15 years experience) in Boston are making under $30.. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm pretty sure most electricians in this country are making under $20 bucks an hour.. Even if you are union making good money, your constantly facing layoffs.. It's not easy to make 60K in a year as an electrician making $30 bucks an hour...
But I agree, teachers are also getting screwed. We live in a screwed up place.. Athletes make more money than they could ever spend. We cheer when we hear a movie made 150 Million in 1 weekend. Then we turn around and b!*ch when a doctor saves our life and the medical bill exceeds 15K. We have crazy priorities..
$30 bucks for an electrician is pretty unusual outside of unions in Major Metro's (Boston, NY, Chicago, San Fran, etc). Keep in mind, most electricians are non union and aren't working in major metro areas. Non union electricians out here in Phoenix make $16-$22 bucks an hour. Even the union guys are under 25 bucks an hour.. And that's with no paid holidays or vacations. The benefits are brutal as well.... Non union electricians (with 15 years experience) in Boston are making under $30.. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm pretty sure most electricians in this country are making under $20 bucks an hour.. Even if you are union making good money, your constantly facing layoffs.. It's not easy to make 60K in a year as an electrician making $30 bucks an hour...
But I agree, teachers are also getting screwed. We live in a screwed up place.. Athletes make more money than they could ever spend. We cheer when we hear a movie made 150 Million in 1 weekend. Then we turn around and b!*ch when a doctor saves our life and the medical bill exceeds 15K. We have crazy priorities..
Basically, the "BLUE STATES" is where the union guys make a good buc. That's why they vote democrat in those states!
I would ask you the same question. Have you realized how few people make over $60k? This year, I have been applying for professor jobs across the country and most run from the mid $40s to 60k. These are for folks with PhDs, long lists of scientific contributions, and years of experience. Very many people make under $60k, and it think a larger share of us will, as our jobs keep getting outsourced. If you are way above that, count yourself lucky, because many are not, and have no easy way to earn those salaries outside of corporate sales, law, or medicine. That is why I am so amazed that home prices are so ridiculously high across the country, relatively few can pay more than $200-250k for a home. Sounds like Tiger Beer is just a joe trying to get by, and a pretty smart one too. I wish him the best.
It is interesting that you find $60k limiting in one of the most affordable places in the country. Imagine how folks feel out here in Oregon, with 12% unemployment, lower wages, and 30% higher living costs, yet people keep moving in by the day...I more or less agree about the limitations of $60k, but will stress that is the reality of many, if not most, Americans these days.
Just another example of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.. The way things are set up right now.. The middle class is getting wiped out.. This country runs on the middle class and we are getting wiped out.. It's unreal... Also, we are giving millions to these gigantic cooperation's that have done well in the past.. A couple bad years and we have to bail them out? I say we let nature run its coarse... If your business is not profitable, I guess you don't belong in business.. This country is turning into a crazy place.. The rich vs the poor.. Starting to sound like Mexico now..
Well, everything you said is 100% correct. There isn't any dispute about it whatsoever.
But, just because that is what is needed, doesn't mean people are getting it.
Housing is a huge one. It is also interesting the required two people working. It use to be that one person worked and it was enough income for the entire family. Now it is required for both people to be working, just so a family can barely get by.
Anyways, you are 100% correct with everything you've said...and probably the reason that both fiddlehead and myself stumbled upon Pittsburgh as this place that still exists in America that has reasonable priced housing to at least alleviate some of that 'income stress' found in living out west or on the east coast.
I agree, but I will give the Burgh some additional points for just being plain cool. I have never given much thought to Pittsburgh until this year, and I think it has several other appealing features besides affordability. A beautiful setting with nature in the city and close at hand, a manageable size, friendly, down to earth people you'd want to have a beer with, a cultural district with great museum, relatively low crime, a rich history and architectural character, etc.,etc. It seems like it can compare well with many American cities. As for me, I have little stomach for the posing and self-satisfaction that goes along with NYC, San Francisco, Seattle,Boston, etc. I hope I am not putting on the rose-colored ScranBarre glasses here, but Pittsburgh seems like a bargain not just because it is affordable,but because it seems nicer than folks think, and a poor working stiff might be able to build a good life there. That's all I am asking for, a decent shot. That is surprisingly hard to find these days.
Just another example of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.. The way things are set up right now.. The middle class is getting wiped out.. This country runs on the middle class and we are getting wiped out.. It's unreal... Also, we are giving millions to these gigantic cooperation's that have done well in the past.. A couple bad years and we have to bail them out? I say we let nature run its coarse... If your business is not profitable, I guess you don't belong in business.. This country is turning into a crazy place.. The rich vs the poor.. Starting to sound like Mexico now..
Your pension might have disapeared if they would've let that happen. I realize you probably ain't even vested yet, but imagine if you had 20+ years in the trade and that happened!
I agree, but I will give the Burgh some additional points for just being plain cool. I have never given much though to Pittsburgh until this year, and I think it has several other appealing features besides affordability. A beautiful setting with nature in the city and close at hand, a manageable size, friendly, down to earth people you'd want to have a beer with, a cultural district with great museum, relatively low crime, a rich history and architectural character, etc.,etc. It seems like it can compare well with many American cities. As for me, I have little stomach for the posing and self-satisfaction that goes along with NYC, San Francisco, Seattle,Boston, etc. I hope I am not putting on the rose-colored ScranBarre glasses here, but Pittsburgh seems like a bargain not just because it is affordable,but because it seems nicer than folks think, and a poor working stiff might be able to build a good life there. That's all I am asking for, a decent shot. That is surprisingly hard to find these days.
SO TRUE!
Yeah, actually there are plenty of bargains in cities like Cleveland, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, and on and on...even Sacramento, CA.
But, with all of them, when I really view them, and particularly all of the other cities in the midwest like in OH, KY, etc. Something about them just looks personally very unattractive to me, and I can't put my finger on what it is at all. I also don't find that I see eye-to-eye with the thinking either. Same with southern cities that are also affordable.
There is something appealing about Pittsburgh...I think all of the many amazing photos and views and how photographic Pittsburgh is in photos. The old architecture. Even when I look at the Pittsburgh Pirates baseball stadium, I can see myself really getting into the loser Pirate team and enjoying the ambiance - although if I were in, say, Seattle, I just don't see myself caring about the Mariners and their season.
I can also EASILY see myself in some of these Pittsburgh neighborhoods...having my house, and just walking around the neighborhood in the evenings...never sitting foot in a car, and having store options, and accessable everywhere from my front door - but without paying premium costs for having that like desireable east coast/west coast cities.
Your pension might have disapeared if they would've let that happen. I realize you probably ain't even vested yet, but imagine if you had 20+ years in the trade and that happened!
I'm not even close to vested.. In fact, I'm not even a union member anymore at this point. I quit electrical for now and took a job working at a prison as a correctional officer. I figured we wouldn't run out of felons any time soon. I played it safe..
Oh by the way, I work for a private prison. So I don't have a pension coming to me at this job either.. Keep an eye on this.. Soon private prisons will take over the business of corrections. What that means is massive profits for the business owner and less money and benefits for the officers.
My generation is going to be the poorest generation of elderly people I bet.
Your pension might have disapeared if they would've let that happen. I realize you probably ain't even vested yet, but imagine if you had 20+ years in the trade and that happened!
I agree with both of you here. Yes, the ba$tards should have gone down the tubes! But, unfortunately they would have taken us all down with them. Sheesh, what a world we live in! It is all getting very Monty Python..!
I agree, but I will give the Burgh some additional points for just being plain cool. I have never given much though to Pittsburgh until this year, and I think it has several other appealing features besides affordability. A beautiful setting with nature in the city and close at hand, a manageable size, friendly, down to earth people you'd want to have a beer with, a cultural district with great museum, relatively low crime, a rich history and architectural character, etc.,etc. It seems like it can compare well with many American cities. As for me, I have little stomach for the posing and self-satisfaction that goes along with NYC, San Francisco, Seattle,Boston, etc. I hope I am not putting on the rose-colored ScranBarre glasses here, but Pittsburgh seems like a bargain not just because it is affordable,but because it seems nicer than folks think, and a poor working stiff might be able to build a good life there. That's all I am asking for, a decent shot. That is surprisingly hard to find these days.
One poster, I can't remember if it was on this thread, or a city vs city one, said "nobody does rust belt chic like Pittsburgh". Which to me, really means "nobody does blue collar chic like Pittsburgh does".
I'm not saying this cause I'm a homer, but nobody does. Buffalo, Cleveland, and Cinnci just can't compare with Pittsburgh. When you factor the cost, and everything the city has to offer, Pittsburgh is unbeatable for what it is.
One thing I have to add though, living in the cheaper, less desirable areas of the city or surrounding area, will get depressing after awhile.
It might take a newcomer transplant awhile to get this feeling, but I'm almost positive they'll get the feeling after awhile.
Walking out of a cheap crummy rowhouse in Lawerenceville will lose it's "chic" urban appeal pretty fast (especially on a dreary day). Not to mention the neighbors that you'll deal with.
Pittsburgh is cheap, no doubt. But not as cheap as some make it out to be. The reality of a lot of Pittsburgh neighborhoods is anything but great. Sometimes what seems "cool" at first, might seem a lot different when living in that neighborhood.
Just another example of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.. The way things are set up right now.. The middle class is getting wiped out.. This country runs on the middle class and we are getting wiped out.. It's unreal... Also, we are giving millions to these gigantic cooperation's that have done well in the past.. A couple bad years and we have to bail them out? I say we let nature run its coarse... If your business is not profitable, I guess you don't belong in business.. This country is turning into a crazy place.. The rich vs the poor.. Starting to sound like Mexico now..
Speaking of corporations...that's another thing I don't get about what is happening in the U.S. Everything is corporate and chain stores and such. All of those corporations just hire wage earners, like teenagers or whoever is willing to work that.
People who want to own businesses, go into franchising now. Plus everything is zoned everywhere for the car, so having a big franchised corporate sign is what motivates a person to park in your establishment.
I long for those cities where 'Joe Blow' can open up his own little business, give the business whatever name he wants, and open up shop. The kind in and among neighborhoods where people live and can walk to (as opposed to zoning business districts across town in a 'business area'.) Actually being outside of the U.S., I see these everywhere - the ma-and-pa type shops...also saw tons on the East Coast, and they try to keep those in the Pacific Northwest as well. Viewing Pittsburgh google maps, I also see TONS of creative regular businesses all over the neighborhoods. LIke cool looking bars and pubs that don't look like an applebee chain, etc. Places people can walk around in their neighborhoods without having to drive and park in a large parking lot, etc.
The funny thing is that for massive amounts of people across the U.S., they have no idea what COULD be...and Pittsburgh has right up there with the best of the cities. I think 'Bench Warmer' sees it as he is from Boston and Boston has that. Fiddlehead has a strong sense of it because Oregon has a strong awarness of that. Unfortunately people with money have gone to the Boston and Portland cities and prices certainly reflect that people will pay big money just to have what is considered normal throughout the rest of the world. Pittsburgh is lucky to still have that 'old world' charm, and people are fairly ambivalent or overlook it.
I'm saying all this as a person who still has never lived in Pittsburgh though, but everything I've read and view and look into seems to confirm that.
Pittsburgh is one of the few cities where people can say 'but is it walkable?' and people say 'of course'. Every other city, Miami, Tampa, Dallas, Houston, San Diego, etc... people will say...'ahmm...no, you'll need a car here'
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It is all getting very Monty Python..!
